To ask how people get these jobs.

[Ecriture]

I'm over 30, I come from a working class background.

I grew up with a mum on benefits single parent, 3 kids.

I tried though.

I went to iffy poly uni and got a crap degree (2:2) because I worked three jobs just to stay on the course.

It's not been easy but I've been willing to work as hard as it takes to make a life for myself unlike my childhood.

However, in the past 7 years I'm working I've barely scratched the surface and I am only on 25 grand and still at the bottom of the pile.

Today I had to attend a meeting where 60% of people present were some type of chief officer, cfo or head of major departments.

They all seem to have very distinguished careers and have attractive salaries way beyond my own.

My question is this how did they get there?

A lot of women on this site also seem to be high earners with lots of responsibility.

Does one have to be born into a wealthy family, know the right people or go to the best university. I have none of this.

Can hard work actually get you anywhere in life?

Am I destined to spend the rest of my life doing a low paid work despite my ambitions?

Am I being unreasonable do you think that someone from my background could ever rise higher?

Can anyone give me any advice about what I can do or how they progress in the phone their own career?

When you come from a working class background, things that increase your networking and exposure within your profession can be particularly important (because you don't have much of that from your family and schooling).

So doing things like getting involved in your professional association/body, writing an article for a professional magazine, going to conferences etc. can get your name out there and your face visible and get you associated with being knowledgeable about your industry. Then, when an interview opportunity comes up you aren't an unknown quantity to them - they can already feel like they know you have expertise. You also get to increase your exposure to other people and ideas in your profession which does, infact, increase your expertise!

There is a lot of absolutely fantastic advice on this thread.

But let us not pretend that the CEOs of FTSE 100 companies are really a true depiction of the UK's diversity... in terms of gender, class, or race... it is all very well to try your hardest and get lucky where you can (!), but undeniably the benefits of a financially secure background and a dick and a white-British-sounding surname are helpful in one's career progression.

I'm not just being an asshole, there is actual research showing that identical job applications from people with "foreign"-sounding surnames get fewer interview offers than those with surnames that sound white. Same goes for gender. And, while there's less research on class, you can pretty clearly that people who attended fee-paying schools are vastly over-represented in parliament, the media and the boards of FTSE 100 companies.

I don't mean to do down the benefits of hard work, resourcefulness in finding and using mentors/sponsors, tactical job moves, etc. I honestly believe that those things will do your career nothing but good. But it's disingenuous to believe that we all start on a level playing field.

My advice would be:

1. Find and nurture relationships with a couple of fantastic mentors or sponsors. Try to get a gender mix. Some research suggests that sponsors are most effective when they're in your own organisation and male.

1. Tactical job moves. It's like mobile phone contracts -- don't assume they'll give you the best deal for loyalty; in fact you're likely to get shafted. Move around. Not ever two years but every 3-5, or when you feel stuck or taken for granted.

1. Apply for jobs you really like and are enthusiastic about, even if you don't have every single attribute listed in the job description. Men do this. They often get the jobs. Women tend to rule themselves out because of the few attributes they don't have... thereby never giving themselves the chance to get the job!

1. Be authentic and empathic. Prepare good questions in advance and ask them. Make yourself visible.

1. Your question: "How did they get there?" ... Make contact with the CEOs you encountered. Explain where you met, say something nice about their distinguished career. Ask if you can buy them a coffee and ask them a bit about how they got where they did. I guarantee that you will get something useful and interesting from it -- could be wise advice relating to your sector, could be a new mentor with whom you build a friendly ongoing relationship.

First of all, if you came from a very w/c background, and scraped through uni, then you have already over-performed, so give yourself an emotional boost by looking back on what you have achieved.

There will always be people who don't fit the pattern for statistics, but there are very strong trends that show how the rich are (increasingly) getting richer, and those born into the lowest 40% have to haul ass just to keep where they are, otherwise they will be getting poorer. It's actually really very scary just how HUGE the gap is between the richest and poorest, and how much is it growing. The poverty of the poorest is getting worse, and there are more people falling into that category. The UK is the worst country in Europe for inequality. So - just by earning an 'average' salary you're doing better than you think.

BUT - reasons why people from more affluent families get the better jobs?

1. Better education.
2. Better support for that education. You're obviously bright and ambitious - imagine if you'd gone to an amazing private school, and never had to work as well as study.
3. Connections/nepotism. It's not just that someone could get offered a good starting position at their uncle's firm (or whatever) but they've heard of the right people/jobs etc.e.g. I was never encouraged to think of myself as academic or career minded. Now I realize that I would have loved to be a university professor, but I was only encouraged to be a school teacher, preferably younger kids, as that's what women do!
4. Less pressure to take a job, any job, and able to live at home with parental support until the right thing comes along.
5. 'Fitting in'. So, so, many times I've seen people who are crap at their job getting a promotion just because they 'gel' with higher ups - they know the right jokes and cultural references, or have the same accent, or went to similar schools etc.
6. Being prepared to sideline everything except work. So much easier for people without kids, or a spouse who does the bulk of childcare, or parents who can support childcare/college/pay for you to have a cleaner etc etc.

Basically, wealthier people, men, white people etc have all of these advantages without even thinking about it. So, they tend to get the better jobs, then when they're recruiting new people, they genuinely believe that other people like them are the best applicant and so the trend goes on.

Things you can do without costing money:
Watch TV with people with neutral/posh accents and just try to pick up how they talk (you shouldn't have to, but we're not talking about an equal world here).
Apply for anything/everything you think you can possibly do to get the next step up. Let it be known that you're ambitious and hard working.
Contact recruitment agencies and let them know that you're in the market for a new job. Send them your CV along with a list of your skills & ideal job.
When you're in those meetings, really try to work out how to fit in, seem like one of the club.
Take on some (but not too much) extra work to show the bosses that you can be trusted with responsibility.

But remember - the system is unequal, and some people can 'lean in' to their careers (I hate that phrase) until they fall flat on their face, and still never make it.

*I left uni totally unaware of usual, everyday job titles.

I think if your relatives / family friends had been accountants or project managers or civil engineers you’d have a wide general understanding of what you could do, what it would involve, how you’d get there

I knew about vets dentists and nurses but had no idea of the corporate world and I think that harmed my achievement*

^^ this for me too. I was only really aware of visible jobs that you see every day. I still don’t really understand the full scope that’s out there.

I think a professional qualification is better than a bad grade in a subject that isn’t really relevant to many careers. Have you considered studying?

I’m nearly 30, was made unexpectedly disabled by cancer when I was 17, in an abusive relationship and pregnant at 19. Now a married mother of 3 and a company director, my FTE is about £40k and will only go up, depending on how much I put in (restricted around my kids though)

Motherofdragonite: you’re right, absolutely. I think this has at least two causes, possibly more.

The first is the one you allude to; that there are systemic biases against race, class, gender, religion and probably a whole host of other things. This is both a bias from interviewers and hirers, but also in the documentation they produce. I’m sure I read a report that white men where much more likely to identify with the terms used in job ads, for example.

The second which I think plays a large part has been mentioned here, and that’s that if you come from a background where high paying jobs are more common, you could potentially have a greater understanding of the corporate world and the paths within it, rather than just the standard ‘trade’ type jobs.

OP one thing you are doing correctly is asking strangers questions.

I ended up in the IT sector by doing that in my early 20s. I was also encouraged by one of my brothers' because I asked him questions about careers so he decided to help me. (To show you the type of guy he is I now out earn him and he's now massively out earned by his wife but wasn't for the first 15 years of their marriage. He's proud of all the women he's helped. )

However realising that there were very few women particularly in management in all the companies I worked in I went self employed. That way I've become more senior. I've also worked around the country and abroad to gain skills, plus have participated in various sports. The latter means I have things to talk about in a male dominated industry.

Up until the age of about 10 I met members of my extended family with high up jobs, which my parents didn't have. Then by participating in amateur sport from my 20s I again met people with high status jobs. So while I was stuck in poorly paying roles in my 20s due to sex and race discrimination - the companies I worked for claimed it was lack of experience but oddly it didn't stop them promoting similarly skilled mainly white men - once I hit my 30s I was earning decent money.

Btw I know the men were similarly skilled as a lot allowed me to see their CVs. Plus other women I worked with suffered the same issues and even worse sex discrimination.

What a brilliant, helpful and timely thread.
I'm in the process of applying for my dream job but it's 3 pay bands above what I am currently on and I'm trying to remain positive about my chances of actually getting through the interview in one piece (still on with the application which is looking good, fingers crossed I get an interview to get through in one piece)

I'll be reading and rereading this thread to keep my thoughts positive

Ok OP here was my trajectory.
Grew up northern wclass. Father on dole
4 grade A a-levels
Went to a not great university and got a 2.2 in a random social science.
First job out of uni was 8k working in the civil service in my uni town for a year
Moved to london and temped for a year for £2.50 an hour
No idea what I wanted to do and a RC suggested I go into a policy writing type job.
Did policy job for 4 years. Started on 18k, left on 23k
Next move was to take those skills to financial services where I'd seen lots of jobs advertised. Terrifying move. Didn't know what I was doing but picked it up pretty quickly, threw myself into it and developed 'my voice' and great experience presenting to senior management. Did that for 3 years started on 28k left on 35k
Went to big corporation and a step up in seniority now leading a team. Started on 40k left 3 years later on 50k
Left to go to big global firm to broaden my experience and have worked my way up the ranks over 10 years being promoted every 2 years or so because I have demonstrated I have capability and have asked for it!
First role 55k
Next promotion 78k
Next promotion 95k
Next promotion 120k
At 44 Current role in C-Suite 160k plus bonus of around 25%.

Key for me is confidence and gravitas (even when you don't feel it) and being rock solid trust worthy to do something asked of you. Also seeing the big picture as a PP has stayed. I have basically become an expert in the area I worked in then took those skills to a better paying industry, then a better paying company and demonstrating capability above your current role and requesting promotion not waiting for it to be given to you. Also being someone senior's trusted team member or advisor. They will pull you up with them...

First things first. You need confidence. Without this everything else is nothing.
So don't have social anxiety like me. You're fucked for life. Mental health has ruined my life.

@cherrypaklova gives great advice. DH and I started with nothing and worked our way up to successful professional careers drawing on many of the approaches that cherry advises.We also opted to delay having DC until in established roles which worked for us.

• moving jobs
• knowing your value
• negotiating hard
• networking and knowing what perks are available with your “package”
• luck
• ability to identify opportunities (both within a job and also growth sectors)

I moved into a niche but growing sector and my earnings exponentially increased (in part through talent, but also timing/luck/taking a risk)

I was pretty much raised in poverty but did go to university, I got a first and have 2 masters degrees one from an RG university but I still struggled in the work place for years. I'm bright and good at what I do but I lacked any sense of how things work politically and how to play the game. I ended up letting other people take credit for my work and missed out on the recognition that may have brought.

I struggled because I failed to "fit in" and I am not great socially and I think that is a lot more important than people realise. On the other hand I've seen people operate like sociopaths just to get ahead so you can go too far the other way.

When you're from a lowly background you don't have the same inbuilt confidence or expectation and often you don't fit in. You don't have a network who model behaviors for you or advising you how to operate so you are at a disadvantage.

I think you people now do have a better idea on how to get on via the internet which is great but in many wsys I find our hyper-competitive world depressing with people trying to optimize themselves on every level to get any edge they can over others.

I took myself "out house" a few years ago and have never been happier. I am better paid and nobody else can take credit for my work.

Yy to being confident.

Opps should be "I think young people now" not you people!

Working class background, no hand outs, no help from people already in my industry. I'm 34 and in a fairly senior national role. I didn't go to an 'iffy poly' I got good a levels and went to a prestigious RG, I've worked from the age of 15 right the way through my studies and got a high 2:1 and did a lot of extra curricular that made me stand out from other applicants. I work hard and take on projects outside of my job role, and always have, taking initiative goes down well usually. I don't intend to stay in any role longer than 2-3 years before moving up or at least on secondment etc to a specialist role. I've just been offered a promotion whilst on maternity leave. So that's how I do it, can't speak for others.

Many people who studied healthcare professions at uni (eg nursing, radiography, physiotherapy, pharmacology, speech therapy etc) did so when you had a bursary to cover your course fees and living expenses (they stopped bursaries a few years ago sadly!) A starting salary is around 21k but you can quickly work your way up the banding and be on £35-40k or more within a few years. I have friends who have become nurse practitioners, by doing extra courses while working.

People who go into engineering and tech professions also have high earning potential, especially if you've studied an upcoming field.

I've got other friends who set up businesses and are very successful, but it took years of hard graft.

I think it's important to guide kids into careers that pay well, not just encourage them to study a subject they enjoy then be stuck in a dead end job. Research the current market when they're choosing their subjects and help with uni costs if you can.

Also, I think it pays off not to start a family until you're financially comfortable and have your career on track, it's hard to get back into work if you've been a SAHM for a few years. When my DD was a baby and toddler I took on short term contracts to keep my foot in the door (working 2-3 days a week then having a couple of months off) it really helped me land a full time job later.

Have you thought about OU or a part time college course to get into a better paying job? There are lots of distance learning courses you can fit around work.

Reading other replies I think luck and personality type is also a factor. Some get a lucky break that makes all the difference and a more socially extrovert personality seems to help also. If you are shy or socially anxious thats going to make things a lot more difficult for you. I should know!

My husband and I both come from similar background. Both brought up in council houses, both parents were very poor (food banks needed occaisonally) and neither sets of parents had gone to university. Our parents encouraged us though and now my husband is a manager of 40 in a drug firm and I'm a teacher on a reasonable wage. We had a joint income of 90K however, I'm about to take a career break. I did have to work extra hard, my school was shocking and so I taught myself a lot but we did it and I don't feel we've missed out because of our backgrounds. Yes, we had to work harder and yes we have student debt as we had to get loans but we both have masters with distinctions, good degrees from red brick universities so it is possible.

Its called cultural capital. So play the game to win the game. So dont put your degree classification on CVs, stop acting as an imposter but own the job before you start.

Move jobs. Then move again every 2 years.

You haven’t worked hard enough apparently. My husband missed the better part of his a levels because he was caring for younger siblings while his parents were having mental breakdowns. Then he worked several jobs at university and still got top grades in all three degrees meanwhile dealing with his own mental health problems. I’m at university at the moment juggling young children, a two hour commute and occasional bits of work here and there to scrape together enough to pay for my degree and childcare/commuting costs. Obviously many people have it easy but having a few minimal challenges to overcome isn’t an excuse. You can use your sob story as an excuse but you are only enabling the habits that have prevented success. You’ll never have a glittering career or wealth if you don’t try.

Move jobs. Then move again every 2 years

I don't know any women with children who do this. Unless they live in London and this doesn't necessitate moving houses/schools. One or two moves with the whole family in a career- yes, although I still see many more women trailing men's career changes than the other way around. But continually moving jobs, nope. In my field, moving jobs usually means moving house.

The OP sounds young and like she doesn't have children which is a great time to do that kind of moving, even my friends without children don't want to move all the time now we are more middle-aged (starting again with friends, buying houses).

DH and I are around 50 as are the majority of our friends , so a degree was more valuable in the sense that far less people had them when we were starting out, I think it was around 15%.

I’m from a bizarre background, Mother had been on stage but was disowned for a long time as not a respectable career. She also married four times, again much disapproval. We never had much money but she gave us a certain polish in a finishing school kind of way. She honestly gave us five girls lessons on deportment and how to talk correctly. The woman was quite frankly mad.

I went to a Russell group University, DH went to Cambridge. Two of his friends are from council estates and he met them when they were all reading for their degrees. His two friends have the kind of income that puts them in the top 5% of earners. At one point we were in top 10% income wise but I had to retire very early due to ill health. Two of my colleagues had studied with the OU and others had been to ex polys but again 25 or even 30 years ago.

I see people have touched on the uncomfortable truths of race, class and gender. There is also some research on how good looks, height though I think that’s just for men can also play a role in success.

It is just much harder now that a degree is far more commonplace.
Value yourself ! the one good thing my Mother gave me was the capacity to be chameleon like and fit in to whatever situation and people I’m with.

some really good advice above - it is never easy, but often possible - some random thoughts:

• personality plays a big role - the introvert, timid, shy person is far less likely to succeed than the extrovert person everyone is drawn to - so matching career to personality is likely to help

• drive plays a big role - how focused are you - would you look ahead 5 years and plan no holidays / minimal spend on cars and clothes / etc. to push forwards? Some of the most successful people are those who are willing to give up everything to succeed - including marriages and friends - only you can decide the right balance

• knowledge - of the job - learn, learn, learn - the one thing that school ideally should teach is a love of learning and knowledge acquisition - sadly it often puts people off...

• knowledge of the people - network, be there, if you are always at an industry conference / chatting to people / on linked forums / etc. - then people know you - they feel comfortable with you - rather like product marketing where people buy because they feel comfortable with the brand - be the brand and then people will feel comfortable employing you - if there is the opportunity to write in the industry - or tweet - or be on linked in - etc. then take it

• knowledge of the system - one of the biggest reasons why people succeed more easily from certain backgrounds is that they are in the system - it is much harder from outside - so look for a mentor - easier when you are younger as many successful people will happily give back in time to younger people (who are no threat to them) - find someone at the level (or above the level) you next want to achieve / want to end up at - and ask if they will mentor you - huge advantages

ultimately though - people succeed for many reasons, the fact that the OP is asking these questions shows the right hunger, but there is a big difference between 'I am on xx and why are others on xxxx' v. a belief that you could do their job and will work to find any route to that place...