To ask how people get these jobs.

[Ecriture]

I'm over 30, I come from a working class background.

I grew up with a mum on benefits single parent, 3 kids.

I tried though.

I went to iffy poly uni and got a crap degree (2:2) because I worked three jobs just to stay on the course.

It's not been easy but I've been willing to work as hard as it takes to make a life for myself unlike my childhood.

However, in the past 7 years I'm working I've barely scratched the surface and I am only on 25 grand and still at the bottom of the pile.

Today I had to attend a meeting where 60% of people present were some type of chief officer, cfo or head of major departments.

They all seem to have very distinguished careers and have attractive salaries way beyond my own.

My question is this how did they get there?

A lot of women on this site also seem to be high earners with lots of responsibility.

Does one have to be born into a wealthy family, know the right people or go to the best university. I have none of this.

Can hard work actually get you anywhere in life?

Am I destined to spend the rest of my life doing a low paid work despite my ambitions?

Am I being unreasonable do you think that someone from my background could ever rise higher?

Can anyone give me any advice about what I can do or how they progress in the phone their own career?

OP what did you do your degree in?
I did biological sciences and work in the pharmaceutical industry in R&D. The company I work for is dominated by women at every quartile and it’s not remotely unusual to be of a different ethnicity. Many roles are regional so there are all regional accents at UK meetings.
My department would pay a new graduate about 25k for an admin role. All our admin staff have degrees and have been able to progress their career into something they find challenging and worthwhile.
I have no idea how to get to CEO level but to get towards 80k (salary/car allowance/bonus) would not be unusual. And this wouldn’t be head of department either.
The people that stand out to me are the ones that volunteer for new things, have enthusiasm and actually deliver results. Some people don’t want to over volunteer because they have other stuff going on, that’s fine but they don’t stand out over the ones that have put themselves out.
But I really think finding the right industry for you is key. Whether it’s for money or to motivate you and make you want to get up every morning and go to work.

Take every opportunity to learn, formally and informally. I have a professional qualification and it has been the back bone of my career.

Network and maintain your network, don't confine yourself to your sector or your specialism.

Don't be tempted to dismiss other people's success as brown nosing or politicking. Don't believe the disgruntled people who say "it's not what you know it's who you know". Eliminate that petty bitterness and focus on yourself and what you can achieve.

Move jobs and be brave. Take opportunities and aim high. Understand what makes you valuable and play to your strengths.

Think ahead, think how your work world will change because of demographics, technology or social change and always be at the front of the wave. This gets more important as you get older, don't get left behind.

I'm still watching this thread because I'm finding most of the advice very helpful.

Some get a lucky break that makes all the difference and a more socially extrovert personality seems to help also.

This is what drives internal promotions in my company. Also as other people said, if you 'gel' with the higher-ups.

@OneStepSideways Everything you say is ringing bells with me, when I went to uni we were encouraged to do something we loved rather than something that would set us up in a profession for life. I did that but have ended up in a dead end.

I'm bright and good at what I do but I lacked any sense of how things work politically and how to play the game. I ended up letting other people take credit for my work and missed out on the recognition that may have brought.

This has only recently started happening to me. I realised about 12 months ago that my manager has been taking the credit for my ideas, in almost an obsessesive way. That's their way of getting ahead, it hasn't occurred to me to be that mercenary.

I stopped engaging because of it, when your manager takes credit for everything you do and pushes bad performance back on the team, it's hard to get recognition.

Yy to being confident

Confidence is part of it. You have to play the game. Sometimes people who're very good at a job just stay stuck there, while people who promote themselves reap the benefits, even if they're not so good.

I think confidence is the key whether that comes from knowing you are good because you really are or it having been instilled in you due to your background.

Personality-wise, i believe this is how I can improve. Someone up thread suggest a book which I might try.

Regarding, the sex and race discrimination, I can't do anything about my sex or race so I don't want to focus on how that might be holding me back. It will just make me sad and apathetic.

Move jobs and be brave. Happy to move when things stagnate but I'd like to have some forward vision. An upward game plan.

'I am on xx and why are others on xxxx' v. a belief that you could do their job and will work to find any route to that place...

I think me posting this thread is my way figuring out the second part. Can I do it from an intelligence pov?

Yes, I believe so. Can I do it logistically? I'm not sure. How did others do it? Here I am asking.

finding the right industry for you is key. I'm seeing this a lot in this thread. I'm not sure which one would suit and has a clear path into.

I did an English degree. pause for laughter

Don't be tempted to dismiss other people's success as brown nosing ... liminate that petty bitterness and focus on yourself and what you can achieve.

There’s a lot of good advice on this thread, but this in particular is worth heeding.

I come from a similar background to you OP. I’ve done well. Not c suite by any means but just shy of 6 figures and I’ve been at it 10 years.

For me, some of the things that have worked ...

Put the hours in. Everyone who makes it my industry worked hard in the early years.

Do anything you can to make your cv stand out. I have a PhD and it’s opened doors. There are easier ways to achieve this than getting a PhD though. I don’t recommend that.

Already covered, but move frequently. It’s akso very good for your professional development to see how things are done in a range of places. Some organisations are quicker to promote than others. Don’t get stuck somewhere that will hold you back.

Chase brand names. I was lucky in that my first two jobs were with companies with big reputations in my field. It makes the cv v attractive.

Take ownership. I had a near pathological obsession with ownership as a junior. If it was my project, I wanted to be involved in all aspects of it. If you’re good, more senior people will love it when you go beyond your remit.

Be the person that everyone wants to work with. Committed, competent, pleasant.

It helps to develop your own specialism. It gives you some leverage with senior staff.

All of this is much, much easier to achieve if you like what you do.

I did an English degree.

So did I. It’s all about what you make of things. The path is not clear, so you have to construct it for yourself.

But once you get a break in an industry you like, the degree couldn’t matter less.

I think a lot of it is the middle classes hiring in their own image. Sometimes the snobbery and exclusiveness is self-conscious, other times I am not sure they even know they are doing it.

My (lovely) BIL just got quite a prestigious job. He's a super guy and I love him to bits, but the trutj is he was really underqualified for this role. He got it because he knows, and is liked by, the people at the new company.

An acquaintance of mine landed a highly paid public sector job with very few of the qualifications required, and despite being on the verge of getting fired from her previous job for not getting anything done. She went to (expensive) school with someone in the organisation.

I believe that if you are from a working class background, you have to be absolutely sensational to get a job ahead of someone who is just average from the middle classes. Partly this is because of inherent bias in the system and lack of connections. Partly it's because of a lifetime of class-based reactions can create a kind of internal lack of confidence/self-belief that can be really hard to overcome.

On the point about gelling with more senior people, it does help if you share some interests/have something to talk about/inhabit their ‘world’ to some degree.

It oils the wheels.

I left a job pretty quickly at least in part because of the laddish culture. I had nothing in common with the MD, we didn’t ‘get’ each other and I’m sure it would have limited my progression.

Learn how to sell. Earn lots for very little effort. Gift of the gab has always paid the way for me!

I have a high earning job, raised by a single mother who dropped out of college at 16 in a poor working class area.

I went to the local comprehensive and did fairly well (6 A's, 3 B's), then went to the local sixth form and did well (straight A's), then went on to a RG uni and worked hard at studying while also doing 16-30 hours per week part time work and got a 2:1 in Law.

Applied for graduate roles, probably applied for 50+, interviewed for about 10-15 and finally got one working in insurance. Worked my way up from there.

So no wealthy family or connections.

I completely disagree with people saying you need to 'kiss ass' and be willing to sell your own grandmother BTW. I'm not one of those people at all.

Best careers advice I can give is to be very proactive. Most people are very passive when it comes to their career...they do their current role to the best of their ability and then apply for promotions.

That is not a successful way of managing a career.

You need to always be thinking one or two (or more) moves ahead...

So you're not just doing your current role to an excellent standard but also lining yourself up for the next role at the same time.

That means:

• Knowing what the next role is that you want (or a few options)

• Seeking to understand what is needed for that role, where you are now and what gaps you might have and closing those gaps

• Ideally you want to make yourself work at a level above your current role at all times

To do this you can:

• Figure out who you look up to in the organisation and ask them to be a mentor

• Seek out people doing the role you are interested in and invite them for coffee to talk about their role and what they think the critical skills are that you need for it and how they would go about building those if they were you

• Do the same with the manager of the roles you're interested in

• If you want to apply for a promotion but aren't sure whether you would be a genuine contender then take the hiring manager for coffee before applying and ask whether they would consider you (if not, then could they share one or two areas where they think you need to develop to be a contender next time)

• You can express an interest in a particular role or area and offer to help them out in addition to your usual workload so that they get some extra resource for nothing and you get exposure and contacts

Basically the majority of the working population are (a) very passive about their careers (b) not willing to do extra on top of excellent performance in their current roles to get the next promotion (c) don't think about all the different ways you can build up contacts, exposure and experience.

Also a lot of people would look at some of the above suggestions and wouldn't be confident enough to do them. Honestly though...they work.

You might think there's no way someone who is busy is going to make time to be a mentor/talk to you about their role/etc but basically people feel flattered that you have sought out their counsel and most people like talking about themselves and their role/department/whatever.

...also I've done a lot of recruitment. One of the basic things people are told time and again about interviews is to spend time understanding the organisation you're interviewing with.

Even so, I can count on one hand the number of people who've really bothered to do their research.

I spend about 1-2 hours before an interview (so not really that much time in the whole scale of things) looking through the latest news items that company has been mentioned in, reading and making brief notes on their strategy, organisational set up/structure and their last published annual accounts (just the headlines, you don't need to know all the financial tables unless you're going in to their accounting area).

And agree so much with the PP about this:

Most people do a job and say things like "they should do something about that" be that person who does

I'm a fixer, not a complainer. If something isn't working well, fix it rather than moaning about it.

I could be one of those people saying about putting in the extra mile and doing loads of stuff because I was and it worked, until I had dc and suddenly Ms GoldenWonderwall became Ms ShitWonderwall. It’s taken me several years of soul searching and retraining to get to a point where I feel I could come back into the workplace and maintain a career. It’s also much much harder as I’m doing it around dc. I have plans and goals but I have to be aware it’s not all about positive thinking and confidence, often your face fitting or being in the right place at the right time is just as important.

The median wage is about £25k so it’s not the norm that people earn £100k and a bonus, it just isn’t. And it’s easy when you haven’t met an actual brick wall to say it’s all down to good choices and hard work. Of course we want to believe we got where we are based off our own backs, it’s the backbone of modern capitalism, but we all stand on the shoulders of giants.

Op what I would say is don’t write yourself off. Make a list of all the things you want to do and find ways to make it happen. It sounds like your work is appreciated, it’s just being attributed to the wrong person. If you can’t get past your manager in the hierarchy then the only thing you can do is leave. Update your cv and ask around. If there’s gaps in your skills or knowledge fill them up with free courses and volunteering. Ask for more money elsewhere and see what happens. Another thing is a lot of jobs people do now didn’t exist 10 years ago and we have no way of knowing what jobs there might be in the future - you could be one of the lucky ones if you get out there and find a growth niche. Best of luck

Whats the point in having a high earning job unless its a really high earning job? The tax man will rob most of it off you and all you will be left with is a sense of higher self worth,accomplishment and longer unpaid hours /high workload to preserve your position.

Shit rolls down hills, accomplishment, generally more benefits, pension.. for starters!

Whats the point in having a high earning job unless its a really high earning job?

Income, pension, benefits, choices (I've worked a 4 day week since having kids), greater flexibility, more interesting work.

In my industry, juniors probably work longer hours than more senior people.

"Whats the point in having a high earning job unless its a really high earning job? The tax man will rob most of it off you and all you will be left with is a sense of higher self worth,accomplishment and longer unpaid hours /high workload to preserve your position."

The same reason that you take a lower earning job - to do something you love and that has meaning for you.

I don't think those who earn more really deserve to have a higher sense of self worth and accomplishment than anyone else, either. Being a corporate lawyer does not make you a better person than being a carer. Quite the reverse.

Nor are long hours the preserve of the wealthy. There are plenty of people in very low paid work working huge hours (often in more than one role) without much quality of life. Hard work doesn't always pay.

Tax isn’t robbery, it’s paying your dues. I never worked silly hours. Pride in doing a good job and a sense of accomplishment are bad things? Seriously?

to be fair, tax is robbery when you are penalised for earning too much and are on higher tax rates. I am all for paying equal taxes, but ending having to pay nearly HALF of your income in tax is outrageous. Until we ALL pay 45% tax, then it's a ridiculous unfair system.

Of course there still a package to go with, but in itself it's disheartening and make people fight for changes to a fairer system.

Whats the point in having a high earning job unless its a really high earning job? The tax man will rob most of it off you and all you will be left with is a sense of higher self worth,accomplishment and longer unpaid hours /high workload to preserve your position."

Addressing this because it's derailing things slightly.

Given my background, I'm happy to pay as much tax as it takes to have decent public services and proper pay for those public sector workers.

I've worked long hours before. 12hr shifts on my feet and then on call all night. Then up at 5am to clean, then back to 12hrs shift.

When I was a high earner (now changed paths to a lower paid but more child friendly job) I was more than happy to pay the higher tax rate and support the welfare state.

"to be fair, tax is robbery when you are penalised for earning too much and are on higher tax rates. I am all for paying equal taxes, but ending having to pay nearly HALF of your income in tax is outrageous. Until we ALL pay 45% tax, then it's a ridiculous unfair system."

Oh do fuck off dear. You pay half because you have a whole ton of money over and above what you need, while other families are struggling to afford the basics of food, shelter, heat and electricity. If there is an unfairness, it's the fact that there are plenty of people on minimum wage who work as many hours as you do, and still struggle for the basics of a dignified life.

And before you say "It's all very well for you to say that", both DH and I are higher rate taxpayers also. So not a politics of envy - a politics of generosity, care, and decent public services.

Paying tax is a fair system. It’s not as if the 40p tax rate kicks in at a low level. I was more than happy to pay it, I just wish it was spent more wisely, but that’s what the ballot box is for. Sorry to derail but to describe taxation as robbery enrages me.

Another higher rate taxpayer here, who is also happy to pay it, as I am grateful to be relatively well off, and recognise that other people are struggling through no fault of their own. I want to live in a decent society that takes care of its more vulnerable members.

The country invested in me when I was young, and even gave me a grant to go to Uni (I’m that old). The moral understanding was I’d pay it back through my taxes and being a productive member of society.

I’m old fashioned and am happy to be in a position where I do pay higher rate tax because it means I earn a lot. I’d prefer that more of my tax went into investing in the future (people and infrastructure) but as a PP said, that’s why we have elections.

In fact, I would be ok paying a bit more tax if it meant reducing nhs waiting times, more support to teachers and local councils could afford both libararies and fixing pot holes in the roads.