To expect DD to be considerate towards her sibling?

[HelenLaBloodyAnnoyed]

DD is 11 and DS is 14 months (there are two more siblings in between.) DS has been walking since he was 9 months old, so it's not new news. However, I constantly have to deal with situations that arise because of DDs thoughtlessness. She will leave Lego/sharpies/coins/batteries on the floor that I then have to prise off DS, usually resulting in tears. Despite repeated reminders she keeps leaving the stair gate open, meaning I always have to be on extra high alert and repeatedly remove him from the stairs - again causing tears. She has also left it open at the top and I only just managed to catch him before he fell.

She will chase him on paths despite me asking her to do it only on grass because he's likely to trip. She will be walking holding hands with him then decide to let go and cross the road, with no thought that he'll try and follow her. Pretty much every time she has a shower, she'll leave the bathroom before drying, getting all of the kitchen tiles soaking wet which then causes DS to slip and hurt himself. She just doesn't seem to give a shit that she causes him to get upset/hurt repeatedly and seems to think I should carry him 24/7 so she can continue to do whatever she likes.

She actually adores him and is always chatting to and playing with him but just can't seem to be considerate. AIBU to expect her to be?

yanbu to.expect more from your dd. my 3 & 6 year olds know not to leave small things lying around for their baby sibling to get hold of. I need to remind them of course but they are surprisingly good and immediately pick up something.

in your shoes I would do 2 things;

1.up the consequences. for example, throw away anything she leaves lying around (bet you only have to do this once) & no showers until little ones are in bed so you can ensure she doesn't leave the floor wet.

1. I would also do some positive behaviour reinforcement with her. I'm not sure what would be appropriate for an 11 year old but for my dds we have a token reward systems. they earn tokens for good behaviour, save them up and exchange them for treats.

tweens and young teens are inherently selfish. Probably as selfish as a preschooler. Most of us went through the phase and went on to become normal, reasonably considerate adults.

Consider tween proofing your space. Get a rug for the slippery hallway. Make sure she has a place that is hers that does not need to be toddler proofed. Then you can focus on things like the gate at the top of the stairs.

Even if you remove the baby from this situation, her behaviour isn’t ok. Walking through the house leaving the floors soaking, changing in the front room instead of in the bathroom or in her bedroom and leaving things lieing around in the floor are all behaviours she shouldn’t be doing.

What have you been doing her whole life to prevent these? Tidying up after hersel is just something she ends to do and if she can’t, then you need to start putting everything you find in the bin. Do not allow her to change in the front room, she’s 11, thats too old for that. She gets dried and dressed in the bathroom or she loses tv time or something.

If she can’t close the stair gate then she’s not allowed to use it. If she opens it, she loses a privilege. If she wants to go through it then she needs to ask permission.

And she brags to her siblings that she’s the only one who get to see her dad? And you allow that? Those poor kids.

You need to take a look at your parenting here, because these behaviour are not OK.

I think she sounds like an angry little child too. Mum starting a new family, 3 under 5, relationship breaking down, can't imagine there has been much time for her. Chances are I wouldn't have been very pleasant at that age in that situation.

It is also possible that she struggles to remember things, is impulsive. That is why I have asked whether her behaviour is similar at school

Sounds like an angry lost little girl. Three young siblings with a single parent mother, other dad not involved. She’s angry at the world for her life and doesn’t know how to verbally get it out or handle it.

She gloats about having an involved dad, that’s not because she’s mean that’s because she feels lost, she doesn’t fit in at dads, she doesn’t fit in at home but at least she has a dad Unlike them haha in her mind.

Even adults some times forget All the things you’ve listed. She’s hitting puberty and it surrounded by little kids/babies and a mum who’s too busy for her.

That all may or may not be true, but doesn't actually give any pointers to the OP about how to address the issues she's facing. There isn't an option not to - she is trying to keep her baby safe and cannot do so with another person in the house who is being so cavalier about keeping age-inappropriate items away from him. Assuming what you say is correct, what is to be done about it?

The daughter and the mother both need councilling together and separately. The little girl needs to be able to express herself to someone who won’t judge her. The mother needs to learn how to actually work with and support her daughter and learn how her choices affect the daughter.

It may even end up that the Daugter actually wants to live with her dad for a while or permanently If she’s not happy at home.

Regards to in the immediate op has to be a bloody mother and get on with it. Picking up stuff with children is never bloody ending, be proactive and just deal with it untill the underlying cause is sorted. Punishing the daughter/nagging/begging/pleading etc isn’t going to work if she hates the current situation it will actually just reinforce the idea that the siblings/mum are what’s making life crap/hard/her not fit in.

I suppose if you just want to manage the situation, you'll have to treat her as if she were much younger and unable to grasp the consequences of her actions, so the new rules are.. She must remain in the bathroom until she is dried and dressed. No toys (with small parts) to be played with on the floor, either play on the table, or in her room. She is not to open the stair gate unless she is supervised... You may need to add a lock, if necessary. Dog toys to be removed if she squeaks them, etc. Etc.
This doesn't address the underlying causes, but perhaps it will give you some breathing space while you work out why she is behaving like this.

For what it's worth I have a DD12, she is an only child and At times still can't seem to retain information, listen properly, follow instructions or generally be aware of her surroundings!

TBH it sounds like you are very resentful towards her. Poor kid never asked to have a sibling with a ridiculous age gap. She will have a toddler in the house when she is a teenager. I think all the examples you have given sound trivial except the stair gate thing which is serious and needs dealing with. You have ultimate responsibility for other children and not hers.

Chillpizza that is the most ridiculous response! You know nothing about her relationship with her dad, yet you think she may want to live there? Just a bit of a leap there!

DD isn't angry, bitter or resentful at all. She isn't doing it maliciously, she doesn't have issues elsewhere that may indicate SN - she's literally just thoughtless.

@HelenLaBloodyAnnoyed

I have lost track of the amount of times I ask my daughter to dry herself before leaving the bathroom! Each time she replies 'oh, I forgot'

I know right! I hang her towel on the door handle so she has to touch it to get out. I have bought her a towelling robe and slippers. She carries them all through to the front room dripping wet and says "what? I shook off" (like a bloody dog!!)

1.tell her if she doesn't pick up small stuff off the floor you'll hoover/sweep it,then do it.

1. Get her to change in the bathroom. Too many options,too many steps,too many things that can go wrong. Dump her clean clothes in the bathroom/next to the door and she can get changed in there.

@HelenLaBloodyAnnoyed

At least yours doesn't end up with her wet towel being left on her bed - and then telling me her bed is wet and saying 'it Was like that when I walked in'

Is it thoughtless or just lazy?

At the age of 11 I bet she is wanting some responsibilities such as going out to the shops or park alone ... if she can do this then she can pick up her crap of the floor.

Then maybe you need to be near the door of the bathroom when she finishes and send her back in. You have obviously let her dry herself in the front room at some point, for her to keep doing it. Are you in the front room when she comes in after her shower? I would have thought she will be coming to the age where she won't want to change in front of you/siblings

I would have thought so too but she doesnt care about getting changed in front of everyone.

Have you been very stern and told her she may not leave the bathroom til she’s dry? I mean, really told her? I echo the towel on floor option. I do it, 3 seconds of standing on it whilst putting on a towelling robe works. She isn’t allowed out til wrapped in robe, no sticking a towel on and walking through with wet feet.

Is she neurotypical?

Hopefully that may change soon. Has puberty started to kick in yet?

Is she into phones/tablets/social media? Can you limit time, turn off WIFI as consequence of not doing what she is told, if you purely think it is down to thoughtlessness.

DS(14) doesn't drip water everywhere after having a shower, however, he has been known to go into the bathroom to have a shower, and then comes down about 10 minutes later in his pjs having forgotten to have his shower!

Ive read through the whole thread and I suppose there's a range of things. I'm not sure it's as easy as 'she must do x because she's old enough to know better'. Although yes she should face consequences because she is 11 you still have to remember she isn't the other adult in the house and she isn't old enough to walk with your youngest etc, she's not even close to babysitting age. As someone said above its a tough range of ages but in the end you are the one responsible for the younger children, not her. So if she's going upstairs etc y o u should be near enough to check the youngest isn't going upstairs after her etc. No matter what her behaviour is (and some is questionable), You're very ready to argue against her and you seem very one track minded and very 'I've had it' and HUGELY angry AT her. So yes the consequences thing but also give her a break, she's 11, I've done some of the things you've described and my dh does the shower thing. Oh and I think the two of you need to reconnect and do something fun together. OP

What if you start treating her like one of your younger children overall? So no little freedoms and privileges if she's unable to act her age.

I still don't think what's being asked of her is that bad, I expect most of these things of my 4 year old and he's genuinely not struggling, not a placid kid either.

You always see on here that you should assign your kids some age appropriate chores so they learn how to manage- well, this sounds about right.

I'm sorry but at 11 she's old enough to makeǹ choices, and I think she is choosing to be obstructive. Is she attention seeking.

A pp said that her making a racket after the younger dc were in bed was maybe your dd's way of protesting that you do jobs in this time rather than having some quality time with her. Obviously you're annoyed at her thoughtlessness and might not feel like "rewarding" her, but maybe if you spend genuine time together, she might feel more inclined to help?

What have you actually done to manage this, rather than telling her off?
I agree with @stayathomer, the safety aspects of your home and your younger children are your responsibility. End of.

But having said that if you talk calmly with her, resist nagging and involve her in managing the risks, asking for her suggestions and support for example and then supporting their implementation, you may get somewhere.
For background I had a similar age range, but if you look at her peers, do they have to take on as much responsibility, or do ‘dynamic risk assessments’?

Shutting a stairgate hardly requires a dynamic risk assessment...! Her friends without younger siblings manage to do it without being asked when they come over; it's pretty much common sense.

I don't always do jobs once the little ones are in bed - I do jobs on Tues and Thurs when they're all in bed later because of DDs late finishing club. The other nights I spend the extra time with DD.