How can I be in the top 5% of drinkers at 20 units a week?!

[Pooshy]

I've been tracking how much alcohol I drink since the start of the year in an effort to cut down

It's working and I think I probably drink about half as much as I used to, around 20 units a week on average. Still over the women's recommended limit of 14, but this is better than I was

However the app I'm using says I'm in the top 5% of drinker so that means only 5 people out of 100 drink more than me

Surely that can't be right... how many unit do you drink a week usually?

Are there any or many ex problem drinkers who successfully don't drink at all for the rest of their lives?
The percentage success of AA has been shown to be less than 5%.
There is a notion that if you drink a lot, you can never drink moderately. I have myself proven that to be pure and utter bullshite.
Yes, I can drink moderately. When I feel I must.

I know quite a few people who once identified as alcoholics and now drink moderately.
They were problematic drinkers, got the help they needed, lots of therapy, some needed mental health diagnosis and treatment, got older, changed their lives house/marriage/kids/good jobs.
Some chose abstinence and others managed to eventually come to moderate drinking usually after a period of abstinence. Some felt at home in AA, and many didn't. Some failed to stop or moderate, and some died or went to prison for a long time.

There is no one size fits all.

3-5 units most weeks, I have never been a great drinker.

Of course it's entirely possible that I'm a selfish arsehole. That's not curable. Unless of course I ask God for forgiveness and work on my selfishness (if AA is to be believed).
Reality? No, I was tortured as a young child and a teenager. I was totally fucked up. The torture continued by my mother by taking my dd off me.

I don't actually care if I die. I genuinely wish I could (would save me the hassle of trying). My mother has taken everything from my life. In the absence of it being lawful to murder her, I'm stuck self medicating I suppose.
Nobody over here knows anything about my past. I can pass quite successfully as normal. When out with colleagues, I probably drink slower than them.

Apologies for taking the thread off topic, but it had almost run its course anyway.

I'd be interested to hear what nationality/culture/race you are when you post about drinking/not drinking.
Another one I find drinks a lot are Jamaicans!

As this is Mumsnet, it is predominately female. Females, in general, don't tend to drink as much as men.

These threads are always interesting as ppl seem to drink a lot less on MN than what I see around me IRL. I only know 2 teetotalers IRL and both of those are for health reasons. It's the same with the 'what I eat in a day threads'; it's always such a small amount and so healthy and yet all around me IRL I see ppl eating much more and more unhealthily. Part of me wonders whether ppl who eat/drink more just don't post because they're embarrassed and don't want to be judged.

I am English. There is a big drinking culture. Most people I know drank shedloads at university, continued to drink a lot in their twenties and maybe early thirties but cut down when they settled down and had kids. Many still drink quite a bit. All of that goes for the women just as much as the men, although the women often cut down more/earlier after giving up alcohol while pregnant.

Are there any or many ex problem drinkers who successfully don't drink at all for the rest of their lives? The percentage success of AA has been shown to be less than 5%.

Interesting. Although presumably some give up not through AA.

By the sounds of it, LitLuts, what you've been through in your life would be enough to drive anyone to drink. I've had a pretty easy life really. Nothing drove me to drink when I used to drink a lot. I just enjoyed it. I thank my lucky stars that I never became dependent. I don't think I'd start drinking heavily now, even if life took a turn for the worse. I always tended to drink when I was happy rather than to drown my sorrows.

Litluts so very sad reading your post. Unfortunately I too get the sense that you don't want to quit. I'll be honest I find that hard to understand. Have you tried to?

Just because your liver results have returned to normal before doesn't mean they always will, and it's not just your liver, plus liver function tests are not the whole story.

I have to say I don't believe it's possible for alcoholics to drink and control it. And that's not because of what some abstract agency have told me it's what I've observed in those I'm close to who are alcoholics who've tried numerous times, via various agencies and programmes to "cut back" unsuccessfully.

Everything you're saying about AA, how abstinence doesn't work, how more moderate approaches are better (they're not "modern" they've been around for ages), how your liver isn't "really" being damaged, your dr agrees with you (heard that nonsense a LOT the people who claimed it later admitted they were only hearing what they wanted to, and Drs don't like to give definites in case they're sued), how they could quit any time they want they just don't want to...

...is what I heard my loved ones say for DECADES...until they accepted properly they were alcoholics and quit. Not necessarily through AA (it's not for everyone for a variety of reasons) but the ones who succeeded (so far) in quitting did/do abstain completely.

Or until they became SO physically ill it was no longer possible to deny the facts.

Or the addiction killed them.

You mention your shit childhood and depression so it's likely you're self medicating, something I believe is true for many addicts. And another reason why I am so careful with my own intake, I have a similar history, minus suicide attempts. But then the depression needs to be dealt with (and believe me I know that's not easy), and that may help with the psychological side of the alcohol dependency, but the physical dependency I don't believe can be reversed.

That's an excellent point Imogen makes, is your dd being raised by your abusive mother then? Is she safe? And I don't just mean physically.

Re nationality etc I'm scots of Irish descent, as of course are my family members, but they're not the only alcoholics I know and am referring to, they come from a variety of backgrounds.

50/50 male/female too.

You mention the stats on success of certain programmes but even 5% success rate is better than no success at all.

I hope you find a remedy that works for you, that you're able to get well (not just the addiction but everything) and you're able in the future to reconnect healthily with your daughter.

I don't need to 'reconnect' with my daughter. I speak to her every day.

I have to say I don't believe it's possible for alcoholics to drink and control it.

I think that for people who are genuinely alcoholic and not just mildly abusive drinkers that this is absolutely correct. I'm an RN and a recovering alcoholic with 24 years of sobriety. The neurochemical changes are permanent.

Molecular basis of alcoholism

The maladaptive behaviors of alcoholism rely on changes in the brain that lead to compulsive and excessive drinking, afflicting all organs, with damage as a secondary consequence of alcoholism. While acute use of alcohol, such as binge drinking and intoxication, causes cellular changes in the brain that last for hours, chronic alcohol use induces widespread neuroadaptations in the nervous system that can last a lifetime. This involves the remodeling of synapses that are dependent upon changes in gene expression in the presence of chronic alcohol use (Wilke et al., 1994), and is illustrated in Figure 6.1.

Anything is possible! People are remarkable and they do change. Not many people reach out for help when they drink too much. Most people don't go to AA, NA or their GP - they quietly get on with dealing with the problem.
Some of the people I have read about attended AA for a few years, had therapy, solved the problem that lead to their heavy drinking - they were then able to moderate - they reported that they didn't wish to tell AA people because they knew the reaction they'd get and they worried it might encourage others to try to moderate with disastrous effects.

The truth is we know very little about how most people deal with alcohol dependency - it has been left to AA and the 12 steps, which while working for some, certainly are not as successful at dealing with this as they suggest - most people IRL do not talk about it and as AA is anonymous, it's hard to get good facts and follow up - no one who learns to moderate would return. My own mother drank too much for years (she was a bloody nightmare when drinking) no one knew about her drinking except Dad and her kids but one day sometime in my late teens, she decided to stop, with no fanfare, no drama, she never even uttered a word, it happened so quietly that I can't remember which year she stopped drinking. My Dad who is also alcohol dependent would give up for months and then quietly start back again - he had to see his GP to receive drugs to help him withdraw but he rarely talked about any of it, the GP was only aware when they were asked for a prescription for a medical withdrawal at no point would they have ever considered AA or therapy - it was a private matter and I think their attitude is pretty normal.