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AIBU?

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Original poster

Is it offensive or am I being silly?

999 replies

CocaColaaa · 02/03/2019 15:57

Just a quick one but NC for this as I guess its outing.

My childrens school are doing world book day and the “theme” is peter pan, its given some suggestions of characters you can dress up as and one is tigerlilly. I was thinking of chosing that one for DD as I hate all of the tinkerbell dresses but ive heard its offensive to dress up as certain things. Native americans being on of them. Is it offensive or am I being silly? Why oh why do they have to do themes and not just let people pick their favourite book characters 😩

OP posts:
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PickledLimes · 03/03/2019 11:09

Pass me the shoe polish if you would,Bertrand.

DozyDotes · 03/03/2019 11:15

Hi there OP, you’re thread has really touched a nerve!

In answer to your question, it’s tricky isn’t it? It can be genuinely difficult to find respectfully drawn non-white characters in popular culture and traditional literature. Some of my DNieces are also Maori so it was a joy for them when Moana came out. I know it’s not without its criticisms but it did seem there were genuine efforts made towards respectful representation of their culture. Disney has come a fair way since it’s portrayal of Native American characters like Pocahontas and Tiger Lily it would seem.

I hope your DD can also find characters that she can relate to. Mine are older now but there really weren’t any respectful mainstream representations of Aboriginal girls when they were little. That’s quite sad I think.

As for being able to dress as non-white characters generally. As long as they are respectfully drawn then go for it. Just avoid tropes that have a painful history (so obviously no blackface etc). You’ll be on safer ground if you stick to characters that are created within their own culture. Japanese anime characters for example rather than a stereotype created by a (usually) white person.

BertrandRussell · 03/03/2019 11:16

“Ah shore will, Missy Amy. Ah jist wish there was polish that would make ma hide white like yourn”

(I have decided to adopt the persona of that lovable comic trope- the blackamoor servant)

LellowYedbetter · 03/03/2019 11:16

Wasn’t the original Peter Pan quite sinister? Didn’t he kill someone? If so the whole story is offensive and should be banned

CarolinePooter · 03/03/2019 11:18

JM Barrie was writing a fairy story for children. He was not writing a critique of the British Empire. He was using the cliches of the time to write a ripping yarn. It is very sad that you cannot appreciate how literature works. It is a work of fiction written over a hundred years ago. I don't think I am being bigoted by pointing this out, but doubtless someone will be along soon to scold me.

Coffeekisses · 03/03/2019 11:19

I dressed as Peter Pan for a party many years ago. (Misses point). Why wouldn’t she dress as a boy? Peter Pan is usually played by a girl in panto.

Coffeekisses · 03/03/2019 11:20

Or a pirate. Or Wendy. Wendy is prettt ass kicking as a feminist icon.

BertrandRussell · 03/03/2019 11:24

“It is very sad that you cannot appreciate how literature works. It is a work of fiction written over a hundred years ago. I don't think I am being bigoted by pointing this out, but doubtless someone will be along soon to scold me“
Nope. Several posted have already said that there is a huge difference between apprwIctibg the story in context and dressing up as one of the stereotypes that you quite rightly say were not considered problematic at the time of writing.

DozyDotes · 03/03/2019 11:32

You have much more patience and much thicker skin than I do Bertrand and Lime Grin

I’m more perpetually tired of this stuff than I am perpetually offended. I seriously don’t get why seeing a perspective that’s different is so difficult for some. Especially in the context of a thread like this where a question has been asked. It’s not like one of us started a book burning thread.

BertrandRussell · 03/03/2019 11:35

“Why wouldn’t she dress as a boy?”

Because she doesn’t want to!

NunoGoncalves · 03/03/2019 11:38

The bottom line is that links have been posted specifically quoting a minority group as saying they find it offensive. You thus have two options:

a) dress as one of the myriad other characters who won't offend anyone;

b) just dress as Tiger Lily – after all, lots of white people have said that those pesky minorities shouldn't be so easily offended anyway.

CarolinePooter · 03/03/2019 11:41

c) dress as Tiger Lily in the hope that there is no Native American there that day.
Btw don't post photos on facebook (or here)

sirfredfredgeorge · 03/03/2019 11:41

I'll say again, this is not about causing offence, casual racism is not bad because it might offend someone, it's bad because it provides the lesson that racism is okay, that it's okay to make assumptions about humans based on superficial differences or to treat them differently.

BertrandRussell · 03/03/2019 11:43

“dress as Tiger Lily in the hope that there is no Native American there that day.
Btw don't post photos on facebook (or here)”

So. Once again. Is it all right to dress as a gollywog if there are no black people present?

Alsohuman · 03/03/2019 11:46

Or if you’re a black person?

Littlechocola · 03/03/2019 11:48

Have you even asked your daughter who she would like to dress as?

CarolinePooter · 03/03/2019 11:49

No, but feel free to dress up as a Morris Dancer

derxa · 03/03/2019 11:52

No I don't think dressing up as Tiger Lily is OK. 9/10 for whipping up a froth fest OP.

Seahorseshoe · 03/03/2019 12:00

My DS is 22 now, but when he had world book day - we could chose any book, he went as a Native American (known as red Indians when I grew up) and it didn't occur to us at all, that it could be offensive. He chose it as a nod to the Native Americans in Peter Pan.

Times have changed fast. He put up a photo off himself, in the costume, on social media, saying saying it was him culturally appropriating back in the day.

Scroll forward a dozen or so years and it occurred to me that, growing up in the 70's, we would play cowboys and Indians often and the Indians were the "baddies"- why?

The culture has come to fascinate me now, the tribes, their struggles and how they honour their culture now. They were not the baddies, they were defending themselves. It beyond bugs me that everyone grew up, thinking of them as in the wrong. I'm glad it is now recognised that they were in the right.

As for dressing up nowadays in the costume, I honestly don't know. When DS dressed up, it wasn't a diss, they look amazing in their tribal wear. If a girl dressed up as Pocahontas or Moana - surely it would be the same issue??

BertrandRussell · 03/03/2019 12:03

“we would play cowboys and Indians often and the Indians were the "baddies"- why? ”

Could you possibly take a wild guess?

CarolinePooter · 03/03/2019 12:12

Blame Hollywood.

BertrandRussell · 03/03/2019 12:14

Yep. It was Hollywood exterminated the Native Americans, deffo.

CarolinePooter · 03/03/2019 12:16

Nonsense, there have been decades of "westerns" constantly on TV, I am pointing out that this would influence what is played at school.

recrudescence · 03/03/2019 12:21

I have decided to adopt the persona of that lovable comic trope- the blackamoor servant

Why, exactly?

SenecaFalls · 03/03/2019 12:23

Are we "allowed" to wear this t shirt from Primrose Park?

I wouldn't, especially considering the racially insensitive language in the description of it.

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