Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Why don't men get 1 year paternity leave?

376 replies

Catinthetwat · 02/03/2019 14:41

I was just wondering what people's thoughts were on this?

I think it's hard to defend unequal access to parental leave. This is important for men, women and for children. The only argument against is an economic one. Is that a good enough reason?

The government are currently looking into extending the 2 weeks paternity leave to around 12 weeks I think - which would be a start.

So, men should be given 1 years paternity leave with pay and benefits equal to women - aibu?

OP posts:
Butteredghost · 02/03/2019 19:42

the father would just sit around doing nothing in 95% of cases

I don't think this is true, and I find it odd that people have such dismissive attitudes towards fathers.

Have a browse around this forum and you'll see that unfortunately it is true.

It's pointless women wringing their hands saying "oh poor men, they don't get to look after their babies" when men not only already have this but also don't want this.

AutumnColours9 · 02/03/2019 19:43

They do not give birth or breastfeed

Original poster
Catinthetwat · 02/03/2019 19:43

the father would just sit around doing nothing in 95% of cases.

Why 95%? Has this been your experience. It hasn't been mine at all.

OP posts:
SoyDora · 02/03/2019 19:44

the father would just sit around doing nothing in 95% of cases

I mentioned above that DH had 6 week paid paternity leave this time round. He did all the school/pre school runs for the older DC, all the cooking, all the cleaning, sorted school uniforms, took the baby between feeds so I could sleep... I was gutted when he went back to work!

Buddytheelf85 · 02/03/2019 19:44

I completely agree that paternity leave should be longer but I don’t think a year for men would be economically viable. I also don’t think that making it out to be about ‘unequal access’ to parental leave is very helpful - there are very obvious biological differences between men and women that have been discussed at length in this thread.

Plus, I think you’re imagining it in the context of men in committed relationships. Remember lots of babies are not born into relationships. It would theoretically be possible for a man to spend his entire working life impregnating different women and taking a year off afterwards.

I think there are some forward-looking employers who have extremely generous paternity leave policies - I think Aviva offers 6 months on full pay for both men and women.

Butteredghost · 02/03/2019 19:45

Really? So you've never read the thousands of posts on here about men who aren't pulling their weight at home? You think domestic duties are split fairly in most families?

Butteredghost · 02/03/2019 19:48

The bottom line is that this is available for men and they choose not to take it up.

It cannot be true that women are keeping it from men and controlling them, as unfortunately as we see in other areas such as gender pay gap, domestic violence and sexual assault, if men want to do something they will.

AssassinatedBeauty · 02/03/2019 19:48

What you see on the relationships board is so obviously skewed towards those experiencing difficulties that I wouldn't have thought it needed explaining. No one posts about how they're not having any issues and their DH/DP does their share. To use those boards as evidence that 95% of men would do nothing on paternity leave is just plain wrong.

@slipperywhensparticus it's not "all about the men". It's actually all about the women, for me. Men taking longer paternity leave benefits women and society. Making childcare not just something that women are responsible for benefits women. There is nothing in increasing paternity leave that would reduce maternity leave.

AssassinatedBeauty · 02/03/2019 19:52

And of course women do more of the domestic duties, I don't think it's a 95% split though. And I don't see how it would improve things if you don't give men the chance to be there and be hands on. To suggest that men just won't ever want to be hands on during leave, so don't give them any, seems defeatist.

Butteredghost · 02/03/2019 19:52

But AssassinatedBeauty men can take 50 weeks of parental leave now. Why don't they take it if they want it? What do you think it should be increased to?

OP is suggesting it should be increased by letting men and women take a year together, but why can't the man just look after the baby on his own (like women do). Why does the women have to be there?

Butteredghost · 02/03/2019 19:53

But they have it now!

AssassinatedBeauty · 02/03/2019 19:56

Men can't just take 50 weeks leave. They can only do so if the mother agrees and wants to give her leave over to him, and is able to do so.

I think the Scandinavian system described up thread is a better approach. I would want to extend statutory paternity leave to at least 3 months, preferably 6 to 9. I would leave the shared parental leave system for the few people that it suits, but focus on improving paternity leave itself.

Original poster
Catinthetwat · 02/03/2019 19:57

Of course MN boards are skewed. Can you imagine

"My dh does 50:50 childcare and housework - aibu?"

OP posts:
clairemcnam · 02/03/2019 19:59

All the research shows even when women and men both work full time, the woman on average does more housework and childcare.

Butteredghost · 02/03/2019 20:01

Why wouldn't the mother agree though? Do you really think that in cases where women took the full year, it's because their DH was begging them to take three months and the women was saying no? I've never heard of that happening, but I have heard of opposite - men being asked to take it by their wives and refusing.

I'm from Australia and here parental leave can be split between either parent but two weeks of government pay is set aside for the man or partner ("dad or partner pay"). Most guys don't take this up and it goes unclaimed.

Noalarmsandnosurprises · 02/03/2019 20:03

There have also been posts on MN where women have been quite vociferous that they won’t transfer any of their leave to the baby’s father. So it cuts both ways. There may be some men who don’t want to take it, but there are also some women who wouldn’t let them anyway

AssassinatedBeauty · 02/03/2019 20:03

I don't think most women would want to go back to work at 3 weeks post partum. Any kind of birth injury or c section would make that very difficult, not to mention breastfeeding and emotionally.

AssassinatedBeauty · 02/03/2019 20:05

Plus I don't agree with the principle that paternity leave must be at the expense of women's leave. It should be a totally separate entitlement.

Original poster
Catinthetwat · 02/03/2019 20:05

OP is suggesting it should be increased by letting men and women take a year together, but why can't the man just look after the baby on his own (like women do). Why does the women have to be there?

I'm suggesting men get 1 year. They could take it with the mother, instead of the mother or the year following. I'm not suggesting fathers can't look after their babies on their own. Literally the reverse.

OP posts:
Original poster
Catinthetwat · 02/03/2019 20:12

Remember lots of babies are not born into relationships

Exactly, how easily could those fathers negotiate shared leave with their child's mother??

OP posts:
AssassinatedBeauty · 02/03/2019 20:14

You could make living with the baby or having shared residency a condition for taking the leave. You could make it conditional on paying the minimum child maintenance or similar. If that's a big concern.

Original poster
Catinthetwat · 02/03/2019 20:19

You could make living with the baby or having shared residency a condition for taking the leave.

^^ good suggestion

OP posts:
Handprints2018 · 02/03/2019 20:20

If we had shared leave when having dc, we would have taken it. Now we could not. Self employed people are not entitled to shared or paternity leave.

user1497787065 · 02/03/2019 20:21

This is all a bit how many people does It take to change one nappy and feed one baby.

My concern recently is that there is so much of taxpayers money being spent on the start of life is that there is so little left at the end of a persons life.

This isn't a criticism just that times change. I understand that few families can live on one salary as when I grew up or indeed when I had my children. General thought is that the government should be responsible for care of aged parents as their children are working full time so can't care for them as I was able to for my parents

OutComeTheWolves · 02/03/2019 20:21

I think shared parental leave is definitely the way forward but it's worth remembering that whist on maternity leave women are often either recovering from birth injuries and/or breastfeeding so it's unlikely we'd ever reach a 50/50 split.