Why don't men get 1 year paternity leave?

[Catinthetwat]

I was just wondering what people's thoughts were on this?

I think it's hard to defend unequal access to parental leave. This is important for men, women and for children. The only argument against is an economic one. Is that a good enough reason?

The government are currently looking into extending the 2 weeks paternity leave to around 12 weeks I think - which would be a start.

So, men should be given 1 years paternity leave with pay and benefits equal to women - aibu?

Shared leave has only been available since 2015. Not everyone is eligible for it (both parents need to be in work, with some exceptions) and it isn't always financially viable. Plus it takes away leave from the mother. All reasons why the uptake is abysmal. Shared parental leave isn't the answer. As others have said, countries where fathers have "use it or lose it" leave for several months are the countries where men are actually taking more leave.

There are very few demonstrable benefits of breastfeeding for a baby, aside from refuced incidents of gastroenteritis

*reduced incidence of SIDS
*reduced incidence of ear and chest infections
*reduced incidence of kidney problems
*reduced incidence of childhood diabetes
*lower risk of breast cancer, ovarian cancer and osteoporosis for the mother.

The sleeping through the night thing is a myth. Studies show that breastfeeding women report getting more sleep than formula feeding women.

I’m no breastfeeding militant. It’s entirely up to the mother. My current baby is mix fed. However suggesting that breastfeeding is a bad thing and that no mother should do it so that their partners can take the leave instead is ridiculous.

Mumsnet women are FAR more likely to be SAHMs who gave up their careers than women in real life. I think it's pathetic.
Why is it pathetic?

Mumsnet women are FAR more likely to be SAHMs who gave up their careers than women in real life

Mumsnet women are women in real life

It's a really interesting topic. I believe that there are obvious reasons why women take more leave, however in a discussion forum on workplace equality, one of the main points raised was that motherhood would always negatively affect women's careers, unless men were forced to take equal paternity leave.

The uptake of shared leave has been very low for the reasons mentioned.

My dh wanted to take parental leave but I had none to share, as I didn't qualify. He took unpaid leave, but had to fight to get that as he had no entitlement.

Shared parental leave does not solve a lot of problems associated with maternity/paternity unfortunately.

Fathers should be entitled to their own leave, minus the recovery element that mother's get (2 weeks?).

Yes I don't see why men's leave should come at the expense of women's

Mothers get 6 weeks recovery time if in a manual job, otherwise 2 weeks. TBH that is not enough for many women.

Btw, I'd be happy with women receiving more than two weeks recovery. It took me 6! But I don't get how looking after a baby is recovery time. Would be much better to have my husband there!

Assassinated, that's not correct. The system was made more flexible from 2015 but it existed before. I know because we used it in 2014!

Are you referring to additional paternity leave? Men could take that if their partner returned to work, for up to 26 weeks I think.

I guess for most couples a long maternity / paternity leave is not financially viable

@SoyDora

"Mumsnet women are women in real life"

Yes. But they're either disliked or act differently. MN hardly exemplifies real life / face-to-face interaction.

I think we should encourage more men to take shared parental leave, it could help them be hands on dads and share the mental load of running a household.

^ this. I completely agree, it's really not common yet which is a shame.

DH took 3 months SPL, and the difference in comments we each received (from the same set of people!) was extraordinary. He was praised and lauded by all, and held up by work as a prime example of diversity, a male senior leader taking leave to look after his own child. To me, however, women mostly said that they'd never give up a part of their leave for their spouse, even though said spouse would love to.

I’m pretty sure I’m not disliked in real life, I have plenty of friends anyway.

How are you meant to recover when you've got a baby? How stupid.

Maybe they should start considering giving paternity leave to those that are self employed before extending existing leave for dads!

The 2 weeks/6 weeks thing for maternity leave is what you must take off, that's all it is. The rest of the mat leave is an entitlement, so you cannot be forced by your employer to return to work in your mat leave. It's a separate discussion to talk about whether the compulsory 2 weeks is enough.

Assassinated, yes I think it was called that. Essentially if a mother went back to work they could hand their unused leave to the baby's father. That was what we did - I had six months then he had around three more. It was made more flexible in 2015, so both parents could take some leave together.

My OH was off for a month (2 weeks paternity, 2 weeks annual leave). There was no way I could have coped with him returning to work after only 2 weeks - I had only just started to recover from an episiotomy at that point!

Paternity leave is not necessary in the way maternity leave is necessary. Minimum mandatory maternity leave is 2 weeks for most mothers or 4 weeks if they are factory workers. Women need to recover physically; men do not. It's nice to have time off to look after your baby; it's not the point of maternity leave.

I have no issue with parents choosing to share parental leave - if viable for them. (If you have a C-section, your doctor needs to confirm you're okay to drive if it's before 6 weeks post-birth. You'd be a tad stuffed if you rely on your car to get to work.) It just cannot be prioritized over medical necessity. You might feel great, after an uncomplicated birth, but that's why your OB does a check-up (around 2-6 weeks) to make sure you are as healthy as you feel.

Re the mother recovering, it may well help her to recover to have the father around a bit more. Lots of people I know had their mum come and stay for a week or so after the father went back to work after his two weeks, because they still needed help during the day (I know some on here will roll their eyes at the idea of a woman with a baby needing help with anything, but I happen to think that genuinely helpful family helping out is a nice thing)

There are two aspects to maternity leave. The first is physical recovery, the second is to care for a new baby. Otherwise, without it most women would need to leave their jobs, because finding childcare for a few weeks old baby is not likely.

Mat leave is not for recovery though is it, beyond the 2-6 weeks already discussed. It's for bonding with and looking after your baby.

Well there is the breastfeeding and the exhaustion which is a recovery process. There is also a mental adjustment to having a new baby that a lot of mums take longer to come to terms with than others. It’s really not as simple as “6 weeks after birth you’re recovered”