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To think Stacey Dooley was right in her response to David Lammy

821 replies

CoolCarrie · 28/02/2019 13:12

“ Africa doesn’t need white saviours” says Lammy commenting on pictures of Stacey Dooley on a comic relief trip. Why pick on her? Loads of celebrities over the years have gone to Africa to show how money is helping the poorest of the poor, and the huge difference it has made over the years.
What Africa does need is governments that are not corrupt and better leaders.

OP posts:
bellie710 · 28/02/2019 17:47

I think he probably has a point but if a white person had mentioned the fact that someone was black everyone would have been all over it as racist, yet the other way round it is acceptable...

waterrat · 28/02/2019 17:49

Those people saying it doesn't matter 'who hands out a mosquito net'

Imagine if your child needed basic medicine. INstead of going to a doctor which you know you are entitled to use through general taxation - you get 'given' the medicine by a 25 year old gap year student from Uganda - who instagrams the moment she gives it to you and wants a photo with your child

wtf???? Can you see how wrong this is.

ColeHawlins · 28/02/2019 17:50

I think he probably has a point but if a white person had mentioned the fact that someone was black everyone would have been all over it as racist, yet the other way round it is acceptable...

No it's not the same. This is about Africa being patronised by paternalistic Europeans. (Similar to the way in which too much of CiN is poor children being patronised by the paternalistic MCs).

waterrat · 28/02/2019 17:51

@bellie710 it is acceptable because of hundreds of years of racist oppression by white people against black people. That is why he is making an important point and it makes no sense to talk about 'reverse racism'.

pollyname · 28/02/2019 17:53

I really don't think the issue should be that Stacey is white, but rather that African people are simply represented as children or 'grateful villagers'. Everyone is rushing too quickly to be woke and shout racist before thinking the picture through. I personally have zero problem with CR helping children and showing that but I also think pointing out that a broader representation of Africa (and Africans as adults, professionals) isn't a bad thing either.

ScreamingValenta · 28/02/2019 17:58

We shouldn't be 'handing out mosquito nets' - we should be investing in local entrepreneurs who want to set up their own mosquito net production businesses. (metaphorically speaking)

ForalltheSaints · 28/02/2019 17:59

I'd agree with him for some of those pictured visiting African relief projects, but not Stacey Dooley given her record of documentaries around the world and indeed in the UK.

Sadly some will use David Lammy's criticism as yet another argument against overseas aid.

Quintella · 28/02/2019 18:06

People who are already opposed to overseas aid seem to be among those most outraged at what Lammy has said. Wonder why…

RockyFlintstone · 28/02/2019 18:07

I really don't think the issue should be that Stacey is white, but rather that African people are simply represented as children or 'grateful villagers'.

Yes, this is true actually. If a black European person went to Africa for charity, but there was the same patronising narrative, with a black celeb putting similar pics on Instagram, it wouldn't really be any better would it?

But then again, I guess part of the point is that it is mostly white people doing it?

TeacupDrama · 28/02/2019 18:07

those saying they would not care about who was handing over a mosquito net for their child or they would join any religion to get it and submit to photos I don't actually really believe most of them

They would not be saying the same if every child in UK getting pupil premium had to dance for photographs or let's have a nice photo of all the kids getting free school meals in their special yellow t shirts, people generally would rather go without the free meal for their kid than have them singled out to dance or wear special ( different ) clothing

RockyFlintstone · 28/02/2019 18:08

Yes, I can imagine there will be some 'oh my god you black people are so ungrateful for everything us white people give you' rhetoric around all this.

Ravenesque · 28/02/2019 18:09

I like Stacey Dooley, but this isn't about her, it's about Comic Relief as a whole and David Lammy is right. The pieces they show from Africa are always emotive, which I guess they would say makes people more likely to put their hands in their pockets, but the fact that most of the people they send to Africa are white is a problem.

Maybe there was a time, back when it started, when that was fine and there were fewer well known black celebrities, but these days there really is no excuse for the whole white saviour thing. There just isn't.

I also have an issue with notions like reverse racism, because it's not a thing, and not listening to a person who happens to be black and knows exactly what he's talking about because he has lived the experience. Not the African in Africa experience, but the experience of being black in a country where white is the "norm" and succeeding as he has done is way more difficult than it will ever be for a white person.

I am 100% behind David Lammy and Stacey Dooley really needs to take a step back and realise that this is not all about her, it's about a far bigger picture that needs to be addressed.

hoodathunkit · 28/02/2019 18:09

I agree that the Comic Relief format is dated, condescending and promotes a white saviour narrative that is just not right for this day and age.

I recently found a children's anatomy book from a charity shop and was looking at the illustrations, which were quite lovely, and in vivid colour.

I noticed that, apart from the illustrations, there was one little photograph in black and white the corner of the page illustrating the digestive system.

Unlike the children illustrated in the book, who were all white, the people in the photo were "starving Africans" whose likeness existed solely to depict malnourished children so that the fortunate children reading the book would be encouraged to count their blessings and eat their greens.

When I encounter debates like this I very much regret not buying the book as it illustrated the depiction of African people as "other" and in need of rescuing in a way that is highly relevant to this discussion.

As for Stacey Dooley I have mixed feelings.

I watched recently her on a programme where she was accompanying Yazidi women fighters to the frontline to fight against daesh. On a few occasions women disclosed appalling personal experiences of rape and enslavement and of witnessing the rapes and beheadings of women and children including close family members.

It is I think difficult to know how to respond to someone telling you about such atrocities and many people would cry or feel lost for words. I believe it is important to reflect the horror of the person's account by letting them see how shocked and horrified you are.

Stacey kept cooing, in a sing song voice with which one might comfort a small child "Aaaaw! Everything's going to be all right" and hugging the women and trying to cheer them up.

At one point one of the Yazidi women could not bear to talk further about what she has endured and ran from the room. Stacey explained to the camera that the women had said that they wanted people to hear their stories but that when given a chance they couldn't bear to talk about it.

I wanted to step into the screen and talk to Stacey.

I wanted to say to her something like, "Stacey these women have suffered unimaginable atrocities. They are on the front line with guns fighting the scum who raped and murdered their family members. They might die fighting tomorrow. Even if they live and they manage to kill 1,000 daesh they will still suffer for the rest of their lives because of what they have seen and endured. Don't you dare tell them everything is going to be all right."

I think Stacey Dooley was out of her depth dealing with such serious issues. I suspect that, being a celebrity, she is not being properly advised by her people who should possibly gently challenge her more and not just say "Yes Stacey". She should have been better educated about how to listen to traumatised people and how to give them space to share what they are able without giving them hugs and false, anodyne reassurances.

I don't doubt her courage travelling to the front line but I found her attitude very condescending.

These women have endured so much. Rape, violence, slavery. They have become warriors with guns out for revenge and justice.

They deserved to be treated with much more respect than they were given in the programme.

The worst part was, at the end when Stacey left the Yadizi women, she spoke to camera and giggled about how sweet the women were and that, while they had little in the way of personal possessions, one of them had given her a gift of purple lipstick.

Lipstick probably does not mean very much to Stacey as she can buy as much as she likes in whatever shades she wants. Stacey doesn't understand that, for women fighting on a front line in a terrifying war, a simple lipstick is something that, even after you have been robbed of everything else, shows that you are a woman.

This story is I think highly relevant

fransorin.com/one-small-act-kindness-saved-lives-impact-giving-lipsticks-women-brink-death/

You do not need to be a psychoanalyst to work out that the gift of lipstick to Stacey was a gift of something precious. Sometimes when someone has very little to give even a small gift takes on great significance. It seems to me that the lipstick was a symbol that the Yazidi warrior was still a woman and, as a gift to other woman was a gift symbolising sisterhood. An extremely moving and generous gift full of meaning.

How did Stacey respond?

"I didn't have the heart to tell her that I'd never wear it" she confided to the camera, apparently oblivious of anything other than the fact that it was purple and she didn't like it.

ZigZagZombie · 28/02/2019 18:11

Thank you for sharing your friend's site @downcasteyes :)

ColeHawlins · 28/02/2019 18:11

Yes, this is true actually. If a black European person went to Africa for charity, but there was the same patronising narrative, with a black celeb putting similar pics on Instagram, it wouldn't really be any better would it?

That's the aspect tangent of this that I can't help wondering about.

I've wasted far too much time in the past hour googling more of DM's published comments on this and he does reference the generosity of the U.K. African diaspora to Africa quite a lot.

Maybe that's the answer. Maybe CR should hire Brits of African origin to represent CR in Africa.

ColeHawlins · 28/02/2019 18:12

DL's not DM's

SinisterBumFacedCat · 28/02/2019 18:12

Funny that he’s directed this comment at a woman isn’t it?

MumUnderTheMoon · 28/02/2019 18:13

Stacey Dooley strikes me as an intelligent, empathetic and hardworking person. She has made documentaries all over the world and I think went to Africa with the best of intentions and without wanting to be regarded as anyone's saviour. Having read more on the story throughout today I can see that people are genuinely frustrated by the way that comic relief operates and how it portrays Africa and it's people. These opinions seem valid and the time has probably come for comic relief to adapt and modernise it's approach. But attacking Stacey Dooley personal seems a very cynical and hardline grabbing move on David Lammy's part.

FuzzyShadowChatter · 28/02/2019 18:13

I'm confused by the idea that it is somehow hypocritical for him to question Comic Relief when he hasn't gone out there himself. Wouldn't it be hypocritical if he did it but spoke of ill of others doing the same? I would think that in our current time we should be discouraging people from flying around just to see what's going on. There is plenty of footage and statistics and word of the people within these communities he and the rest of us can base our opinions on if we wanted to do so.

I think overseas aid (among other related things like working for fairer treatment of those countries and communities by British corporations) is very important, important enough that it needs to be done well. I have mixed feelings on Comic Relief. Nothing to do with wanting to make people feel guilty or whatever, but we have a lot of information from over the years on good effective practices and still what makes a good headline, clickbait, or social media post seems to win out.

waterrat · 28/02/2019 18:24

@hoodathunkit that is an interesting comment and analysis.

People need to imagine the situation reversed - so - as someone above said - children in need of free school meals being made to dance or perform for visiting rich people in order to get the meal. This happens in orphanages in Africa. Google Orphanage Tourism.

Stacy Dooley is an intelligent young woman and should have been aware of the history of images of white people 'bestowing' their charity onto black children.

David Lammy doesn't need to go and volunteer in Africa in order to have an informed opinion on it.

birdsdestiny · 28/02/2019 18:24

Actually if this makes people look at programmes like comic relief and think is this really the best way then maybe they will both have achieved something.

AutumnCrow · 28/02/2019 18:24

@hoodathunkit Thank you, that's a really important post and I'm going to read it again.

elessar · 28/02/2019 18:28

I think he was right. It's absolutely crass for her to have posted that photo - with the caption 'OBSESSSSSSED'.

It's just so condescending and ignorant - trivialising that little boy to the same type of response as someone might post about a really cute puppy.

She may have good intentions but she should be better informed and more sensitive about how she portrays what she's doing and experiencing.

hoodathunkit · 28/02/2019 18:30

Thank for the positive comments

On reflection I think that, when the Yazidi woman gave Stacey the lipstick she was giving a part of herself for Stacey to hold on to.

She might die in a war the next day and she wanted Stacy to remember her and keep her and her sisters in mind. To the Yazidi women Stacey represents the change to communicate with the outside world and the women want to be held inside our minds.

I do not think that Stacey is a bad person. She is young, inexperienced and a celebrity.

I think whoever thought it was a good idea to send someone like her to accompany traumatised Yazidi women to a war zone made a big mistake.

InspirationUnavailable · 28/02/2019 18:32

Are people who disagree being deliberately obtuse or really just not understand Lammy’s point Hmm

His issue with the tired white saviour trope is that (alone with the chronic lack of representation of Africa outside of aid campaigns/news reports or corruption, war and famine) comic relief films don’t need to show white British celebrities not that they shouldn’t exist altogether. So rather than sending Stacey overseas (I haven’t seen the video so not clear which African country she has been to? After all it is a continent not one homogenous state) there should be a local presenter telling the story from an African perspective. Next time you’re watching, compare the clips focusing on CR projects in the UK - that are often narrated by those receiving funding - with those from overseas, where kids just sit looking hungry and sad while a celeb cries at how awful their lives are.

Incidentally, I’m not surprised that David going to ‘Africa’ himself would not help prove his point given that he is not in fact African, of Guyanan decent. Given that he is arguing that Africans should be given the agency to tell their own stories, not have them co-opted and retold by white celebs, him being flown out would not address every aspect of his point.

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