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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think if the Scandinavians charge to see a GP maybe we should too?

221 replies

Pickleup · 28/02/2019 10:13

We’ve just spent twelve days in a Scandinavian country, during which time my DC and I fell ill and we had to get medical help.

We went to the local state-run health centre, took a ticket from a machine (like a deli counter) and waited our turn for an emergency appointment (Ie one where you haven’t booked). They run these emergency sessions 7 days a week!

We saw lovely GPs in an impeccably clean surgery. One of them said I needed a blood test and I was expecting to have to come back another day but she took us over the hall and did it herself with a thumb prick - then they tested the blood in their own lab there and then and told me I was good to go. The whole thing took maybe seven minutes.

On your way out you pay at a machine - it was just under £10 to see the doctor, and £5 for the blood test. Children under 16 are totally free.
No charge for doctors certificates.

We had to make a follow up appointment on our way out and there was reasonable availability - we chose something three days later.

Compare to the our GP surgery...at home in the UK, there is currently a ten day wait for ANY appointment with a GP. If you want a specific GP it is 14 days. There are no emergency appointments at all now. Blood tests - you are talking a week wait for results, minimum.

Isn’t it time we started levying a small charge for the vast majority of adults who could pay?

OP posts:
TheresACatInMyLaundryBasket · 03/03/2019 10:46

*People who do not have enough money go get through the month would not pay for appointments as they would be classed as low income.

The only people who pay for appointments are those who can afford it and are not having treatment for long term illness.*

Not true. Many people are below the threshold to be counted as low income/eligible for assistance and really struggling to make it through the month.

SinisterBumFacedCat · 03/03/2019 10:55

Damntheman we can read ok, we just have a different experience/opinions to you. Dementia is notoriously difficult to diagnose in its early stages, as are many many conditions.

And as many posters have stated being unable to afford the cost of an appointment doesn’t mean you would be eligible for free appointments if you are not eligible for benefits already. You can be working and still desperately poor in this country.

Damntheman · 03/03/2019 11:02

Are you also in Norway, Cat?

People asked how it works here, so I explained and then they ask again so I am a little confused as to why ask again when I've already answered?

I'm aware of how difficult dementia is to diagnose. My father suffered from it.

Graphista · 03/03/2019 18:36

Re missed appointments - I and others have said this on other Nhs threads.

It's not always the patients mistake.

I've had several occasions where a receptionist has given me the wrong info, one in particular was always confusing quarter to and quarter past so telling me (and other patients, it ended up being a major complaint the practice manager had to deal with!) that the appointment was for quarter PAST 4 when actually she'd booked it in for quarter TO 4 and vice versa resulting in patients being half an hour late for their appointments and being told they couldn't have it. Or half hour early and thinking the dr was running crazy late and bugging the receptionists.

I've also had times when I was told eg "Wednesday 8th at 9.30" when Wednesday was the 7th and I wouldn't realise till I was off phone/at home and then you're not sure which they meant the wed or the 8th? And can't get through (probably cos everyone else phoning for the same reason!)

It got so bad at one point I started recording the conversations! (And told them so AND why AND spoke to the practice manager) It eventually got sorted as it WAS down to one particular receptionist!

My surgery also has a system where they send a text reminder the day before - but even these had the day/date issue cropping up - made it easy to prove to be honest. Though by the time I was speaking to the practice manager I got the impression they were already well aware (and mightily fed up with) the problem - but then why were patients still getting told off for being late? I called cos I'd had a right rant off the dr EVEN THOUGH I played the recording (where she'd told me it was quarter PAST when it'd been booked in for quarter TO)

But this isn't the only surgery or only time receptionists have given me the wrong info.

Even in the secondary care level, dd is under a specialist for her disability we once had THREE letters with THREE DIFFERENT appointments - 2 in one week 1 the week after, all different days and times IN THE SAME ENVELOPE!

The first of these appointments was for the following day, I was working at the time and so didn't open it until I got home after 5pm and frankly even if that were the correct appointment how the hell was I supposed to make arrangements to attend on such short notice?! I called first thing the next day - NONE of them were the right appointment. The right appointment was 2 weeks later.

Several times dd and I (I'm also under 2 specialists) have received the letter with the appointments AFTER the appointments happened, WHY they're still using snail mail for this I don't know. On one occasion I checked the envelope for the franking stamp - it hadn't even been POSTED before the appointment.

Now all of those "missed" appointments would have gone down in Nhs stats as "DNA" well I'm many things but a fucking time traveller ain't one of em!

It's ridiculous!!

I'm not saying there aren't time waster idiot patients but I would love to see an accurate analysis of the reasons for DNA. I'm sure the majority are ignorant patients but I'm also sure there's a significant minority where it's not the patients fault. Eg patient has become more ill even unconscious and been admitted to hospital, or there's other issues as has been mentioned before dementia etc.

Before my current surgery sorted their phone lines out they also had the one number for EVERYTHING! And only 3 lines total so it was murder getting through. So even if you made an appointment and then needed to cancel it was a nightmare trying to get through to do so.

Now they have different numbers for appointments (and cancellations), repeat prescriptions, to make nurse appointments etc it's MUCH better.

For repeat offenders who don't have a good reason they operate a "3 strikes" policy, but I gather when that receptionist was there they ended up in trouble with whichever body oversees gp's in Scotland (name escapes me right now and it's probable gonna bug me all night now!)

"You guys don't seem to be reading properly. Dementia sufferers would not pay for appointments as they would be classed as chronically ill" no YOU aren't reading - we're saying that UNTIL they get a DX (which can be a trial in itself!) they won't qualify for the exemption - therefore making it HARDER to get the bloody DX!

"People who do not have enough money go get through the month would not pay for appointments as they would be classed as low income." And AGAIN Do you really trust THIS govt - who WANT the Nhs privatised (but don't have the balls to say so!) who despise the poor, who think being poor or sick or disabled is a character flaw to fairly assess this?! Have you even heard of Universal Credit, ATOS, pip assessments, disability assessments finding TERMINALLY ILL people "fit for work", of the deaths DIRECTLY CAUSED (which they went to great lengths to hide the figures on) by their policies on the sick and disabled? No way would I trust them!

"The only people who pay for appointments are those who can afford it and are not having treatment for long term illness." If the system you're supporting were in place in the YEARS before dd and I were DX that would have been 14 YEARS of me paying for appointments for endo, 6 YEARS of paying for appointments relating to my spinal disability, 7 YEARS of paying for appointments for dds disability (and I'm being generous as from what I now know really I believe she should have been DX as a baby which would make it 11 YEARS) but from the point at which there were really obvious symptoms of SOMETHING being wrong which I reported to the GP and was dismissed as a "neurotic mum" it's "only" 7 YEARS. So would we have got a refund for all those? Chances are with the system proposed being in place it would have taken longer to get a DX (with the exception of the endo which was discovered finally via the surgery I was having for 2nd mc).

ColeHawlins · 03/03/2019 18:40

You guys don't seem to be reading properly. Dementia sufferers would not pay for appointments as they would be classed as chronically ill.

She was talking about the multiple appointments needed PRE- diagnosis.

You're the one not reading properly.

Biancadelrioisback · 03/03/2019 19:01

@Damtheman we are not classed as low income. We are two adults working full time and earning above £60k a year but we couldn't afford this as an extra expense due to humongous debts and outgoings. I hate the whole meanstesting thing. We don't qualify for any help due to several very poor decisions my DH made before he met me.

CiarCel · 03/03/2019 20:12

Chances are with the system proposed being in place it would have taken longer to get a DX

But why would you say that when that is not how it works in other countries that have these systems?

earning above £60k a year but we couldn't afford this as an extra expense due to humongous debts and outgoings. I hate the whole meanstesting thing

no one will take responsibility because even those on 60k are now saying they couldn't afford the very basic charges people in other countries pay, so no one takes responsibility for their healthcare and everyone in the country has to put up with a substandard health service v european counterparts as a consequence. I'm glad to be out of it.

squeezysparklyballs · 04/03/2019 07:23

I think we should bring this in. Same as prescription charges.

For the simple reason that this government will not properly fund the NHS. They just won't. They're also likely to win the next election.

Basically, you can't have both a Tory government and a properly, publicly funded NHS.

The money has to come from somewhere.

Bagpuss5 · 04/03/2019 07:29

It's all very well saying we must do this it is a good idea but the present Gov lost a lot of seats when they wanted to bring in payment (I think it might have been 30,000K or they maybe didn't put a figure on it) by EVERY mature person to cover their costs in old age.
So we would all have nice well managed well staffed care homes to go to when the time came. It was the oldies (who would have had to pay it) who didn't vote their usual Tory vote, hence Theresa May lost seats and is in the position she is now in depending on the DUP voting with er to get her stuff through parliament.
What sounds like a nice sensible idea to some sends the many screaming to the ballot box to turf out whichever gov proposes it.

Tinkobell · 04/03/2019 08:37

I wonder how many people there are in the UK who can afford hair extensions, nail things (falsies), ciggys and betting on a regular basis but who couldn't find money for a GP consultation?

Alltheprettyseahorses · 04/03/2019 09:42

I wonder how many people there are in the UK who can afford hair extensions, nail things (falsies), ciggys and betting on a regular basis but who couldn't find money for a GP consultation?

Someone much, much richer than me for a start. I for one don't do any of those things. If charges were introduced to see a GP I would never go. People would die because of it.

ginghamstarfish · 04/03/2019 10:18

Many countries charge for medical appointments, and it seems to me the Swedish model is a good and fair one. I realise that no government wants to be the one to overhaul the NHS but I for one would certainly vote for those brave enough to do so. I remember once upon a time naively thinking that this was what the EU would do for us all, make our health system/welfare/justice/employment etc etc all come into line, bringing us up to the standards of Sweden, France etc. So much could have been done by pooling information about public services, implementing the best systems in the other EU partner countries. How stupid I was to think that could happen...

squeezysparklyballs · 04/03/2019 11:15

@Alltheprettyseahorses

They're dying already through lack of funds and people miss using the NHS, not turning up etc.

The horrific question we are facing, is who gets to die?

CiarCel · 04/03/2019 11:17

If charges were introduced to see a GP I would never go. People would die because of it

What is the deal with British mentality here - why are we so special that this is the way we think? We will run up "humongous" debts but will not put aside 50p a day for a good health care? Remember, these systems do not make you pay for chronic conditions or if you are unable to work. It has become a hostage mentality - I would not go, people will die!!! - and it is everyone who cannot just "go private" in the UK who suffer.

Alltheprettyseahorses · 04/03/2019 11:25

CiarCel I wouldn't go because I don't have the money to pay £10 for an appointment. I am on carer's allowance and the top-up, less than £110 a week and this will not change.There is no slack, no spare 50p a day when I'm already paying tax on everything I buy anyway, no debts run up (ffs Hmm), just no money. Lots of people would not be able to do this. How hard is that to understand?

CiarCel · 04/03/2019 11:31

Don't ffs Hmm me - there is a post just above yours about someone with a £60k income who can't pay because their husband ran up "humongous debts".

Lots of people would be able to do this as they do in other european countries where care is lagely free or very cheap for the user. The UK is not special. How hard is that to understand?

Backwoodsgirl · 04/03/2019 11:42

Sounds like a great system. The NHS needs to be re organized and streamlined.

It can be much more efficient with the same, or even less funding.

In its current state it won't survive much longer and then it will all be private

Motherofcreek · 04/03/2019 11:45

The amount of working families that are having to use food banks and you think this is a good idea??

ShartGoblin · 04/03/2019 11:52

Wow.... just wow

My dad had a heart attack a few weeks ago and his prescriptions come to £96. He's self employed so currently he has an income of £0 and has been made homeless as a result. It's hard enough paying for the prescriptions and everything else while I help him recover. I can't even imagine what we would do if we had to pay for GP appointments too.

We are nearly a month in and no closer to getting any kind of emergency housing or benefits so there's no way he can prove that he doesn't have the income to cover the prescriptions so wouldn't be exempt from GP appointment charges either.

It's all very well and good saying "only people that can afford it" but you're living in cloud fucking cuckoo land if you think it's that easy to prove you're entitled. Policies like this are a population cull, pure and simple. Ideals like this would kill people if they were put into effect. If this were a policy I would be choosing between a roof over my head and my dad's life.

Just sickening.

CiarCel · 04/03/2019 11:55

The amount of working families that are having to use food banks and you think this is a good idea??

So you would prefer a system whereby families who are able to feed themselves have to use a bloated, inefficient fully state run system so that everyone gets everything the system can afford for "free", and so no one gets the best the system could offer because some people who couldn't afford payments for non-essential/chronic care would need to rely on state help for them?

It is such backward thinking.

HennyPennyHorror · 04/03/2019 11:55

Shart I completely agree with you and frankly, the sort of "I live in a bubble" SHITE that people on here talk, is scary.

CiarCel · 04/03/2019 11:58

The bubble here is people who think as black and white as Shart.

You think the rest of Europe have these systems in place as a population cull?

ShartGoblin · 04/03/2019 12:02

The bubble here is people who think as black and white as Shart.

What a disgusting thing to say. No I don't think the rest of Europe has this in place as a population cull. I think that this in combination with the way the system works currently would be unworkable and poor people would die.

Don't you dare imply that I'm seeing things in black and white, I'm the one sat here facing financial ruin because my father nearly died this month. Quite honestly responding to me like that makes you a fucking cunt.

CiarCel · 04/03/2019 12:06

It is not a disgusting thing to say, at all... seriously - go back and read your post. You are understandably upset about your father but that does not make your post any less irrational. Who is talking about having a combination of European systems ;and the way the system is currently set up?

I hope calling me a fucking cunt made you feel better in any case - at least I can't charge you for that bit of therapy.

squeezysparklyballs · 04/03/2019 12:16

Those who object to this, what other solutions do you propose? More public funding is not an option.

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