PIP / ESA and supported work

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To think if someone tried supported / permitted work the above would reassess and try and take it away? I think they would take it as a change of circumstances. Any thoughts or experience welcome,

PIP wouldn't, since it isn't means tested. Can't comment on ESA although I imagine it would be reduced in line with earnings. Not sure that's what you mean though.

It depends on what the work is and why the claim is in place.

ESA now relates to any work at all. So if you feel able to do any work then you can expect to be reassessed if in support group moved possibly to work group but potentially lose it altogether. You could potenially lose PIP as well depending on the job and what is on the form.

It is very common to be reassessed when you inform them, possibly it can be avoided if you're able to explain how you can do it within what you've put in the claim but I don't know if that's realistic.

A person I knew (who claimed due to learning disabilities and lived in sheltered accommodation) wanted to do an hour a week in the church cafe heavily supervised let dwp know, and lost both their ESA support group and DLA care/mobility (was dla at the time) altogether and found fit to work. The appeal failed.

There's no help available here for appeals which is probably why it failed but the person who went with them was appalled at how they were treated.

All because they were honest about working an hour a week in a cafe.

Yes, it is partly. It's not just about earnings though but about whether they would use the information to stop the benefits. as 'evidence' you don't qualify.

I think for example it is about the points they give you in the assessment. for example if you can't walk but could say be a counsellor, that is Ok but for the other points might be used to say you don;t meet the criteria. For example if in ESA support group for task completion they could say well, you can do tasks in your work so don't qualify any more.

For most of these points it is about doing things reliably, so for the majority of the time and in good time, safely etc so if you had a supportive employer who understood these things would that be OK I wonder. I'm not sure.

It is a nightmare these assessments and would not want to rock the boat and trigger another one, or worse, commit some kind of fraud..

Sorry cross posted with Becca

That is rubbish what happened, (description above) but can well believe it based in experience with the PIP / ESA at the moment. Sadly, they would probably have been Ok if just did that voluntarily (surely, it is not for the majority of the time - just once a week, and with significant support). Really bad if they used that to say they had no problems. :-(

It is horrible as it can make people feel scared to even try anything which might help them.

If you put on your pip form and said in an assessment you have problems lifting a cup of tea/coffee and then took a job working three hours a week in a cafe serving drinks then yes it could very well go against you. You have to consider what your form says.

I get pip and don't work but I could do a couple of hours a week answering phones with a headset on because it wouldn't contradict anything on my form or what I said at assessment.

PIP wouldn't, since it isn't means tested. Can't comment on ESA although I imagine it would be reduced in line with earnings. Not sure that's what you mean though.

It isn't about the money. It's about ability.

So if you had PIP points for mental health, things like prompting with washing / dressing, eating, cooking..socialising (along with a stomach / eating physical problem) but they say you are cognitively OK, you would be Ok to maybe try something like working on a phone line or some kind of home self employment perhaps? Not sure.

If they said you were Ok at the communication areas perhaps, I mean reading / writing etc.

Pip don’t need to be told as a change of circumstances, however on renewal it could well affect it. It shouldn’t do but in practice they can say if you can do A in a job then you can do B self care.

First thing is if it’s ESA and your not on Universal Credit think very carefully about any changes you might make especially if you get PIP as the SDP in PIP is not included if it’s a change of circumstance and that’s worth around £60 a week although they were talking about stopping this and not to mention the waiting time in getting UC sorted out
It really depends though on what your claiming ESA for
If you were going to be a counsellor like in your example
They would ask you how you stuff like how long the appointments are
So if you were to say an hour long .they would assume that your able to sit a a desk /chair for an hour and have no problems in concentrating for an hour and making notes

So from that they would then most likely say that if you can do that then you can obviously sit at a desk and in an office and work
And you have no problems in concentrating and taking notes

I think from memory when filling out a form for a family member it was questions like how long can you sit in a chair for but they will ask you do you watch tv and if you say yes then as most programmes are at least 30 mins they will say that if you are able to do that then you can sit in an office chair and concentrate so therefore you can work in an office

They will want to know how you get to work and how far so if you say I get a bus and a tube or even just a bus they would assume you have no problem in being organised in the mornings, no problem in travelling on your own and no problems in following and planning a route

So if you were getting benefits for say GAD or other mental health issues that might mean you have difficulties going out on your own, you could probably lose it

Also if you get PIP they could use the info you have given them to reassess your PIP

The example about a counsellor was for someone who couldn't walk and in a wheelchair but otherwise OK, not for mental health. But see what you mean.

I've supported lots of clients into permitted work over the years and have never known it to cause a problem with ESA. However, I've always made sure that the kind of work they're doing is not incompatible with their health issues.

You do have to make sure that you don't exceed the hours/earnings limit though. If you do, they're likely to close your ESA claim, then you have to go onto UC, which not only means losing the severe disability premium but also that earnings are treated as income, as there's no such thing as permitted work under UC.

Not claiming SDP, but tax credits - it seems best route if able to work may be to claim tax credits working disability element and just say to PIP / ESA to stop that. But then soon universal credit is coming in...

The group for ESA is "task completion" which think pretty much would rule out any kind of job.

Pip don’t need to be told as a change of circumstances
I’m not sure I agree. Will depends on nature of the disability and the work and whether it suggests an improvement/reduction in needs.

No unless your ability to carry out the descriptors have changed you do not need to tell pip.

Suggestions are irrelevant it’s facts that matter!