Working late. Is it the norm now ? How sad.

[Oblomov]

I posted on two threads yesterday about dh's who work later than their contracted hours.
Barney2 's dh works "(7am) and not home until late (gone 7pm" - so thats a 12 hr day then. And he always says yes to another extra job, if asked. Fillyfonk said "the company won't go into liquidation", if he says no. I agree with Fillyfonk.
Rabsters dh works "9 - 5.30, yet he seems to work 8.30 - 6 most days" so thats an extra hour every day.7 hours a week. A DAY A WEEK. That he does. FOR NOTHING.
Cod said "stop naggin". McDreamy,heifer, HonoriaGlossop, all basically / pretty much said that it was the norm thesedays.
And everyone is saying, this is the norm. REALLY ?
What I am asking, is not what time your dh gets home. Because everyone's is different, they work different hours, have diffrerent length commutes.
I am asking why people think it is o.k. to regularly do more than your contracted hours. I.e do an extra DAY for free, every week.
Last week, there was a post about a lady who had been made redundant, after giving so much. Aloha posted that "But I say never, ever consider yourself as working for anyone else, whether you work full time or part time, always put yourself and your own interests above those of your company. Because you can bet that the company will NEVER put your interests above their financial ones." I agree with her.
No company gives a sh*t about any employee. So if Aloha's argument is right ( and I beleive it is), why give ONE day PER WEEK, extra, for nothing.
If you think that this is the norm these days, for people to do extra hours, I think it is VERY SAD.
My dh has a new job as an Operations Manager. He doesn't take a full lunch. He regularly gives extra 1/2, 3/4 , 1 and 1/2 hrs extra. His men get paid overtime. But he doesn't. He says it is expected. I think, he thinks, that I am naieve. I am not naieve, I know people do it. I just think, that the work / life balance has become totally out-of-proportion. And I think its WRONG.
Maybe its just me, then ?

Too flippin' right re the out of hours phone calls, annie....

Even when on holidays abroad

but in the vast majority of cases, overtime is required not just of people at the very top of the company but also the middle management and in particular the developers. A young IT graduate working as a junior developer will be on 18K or so and will certainly be expected to put in 2 hours overtime every day.

good post nomdeplume - thats pretty much how we feel.

The problem on the flipside is lack of time with dd - but we deal with this the best we can - dh does a lot with dd when he is there and we try and have frequent holidays. Not ideal but we feel we are doing the best we can all round.

I agree that most professional contracts do not have rigid hours of work - you are expected to work extra when 'reasonable' to get the job done. In senior professional jobs clock watching is disapproved of and most people work longer than their hours, although not 'silly' City type hours. In my line of work (academia) it is normal to work at weekends and evenings as a matter of course - the upside is huge flexibility and autonomy. I struggle with it tbh as I am officially 0.75 wte, which means I should work 30 hrs per week. I probably do about 10% more than that on a regular basis but still feel like a slacker because I hardly ever work at weekends and try to limit evening working to a few hours a week.

I know what you mean about time with the kids, wheely. Thankfully DH's job doesn't extend to weekends (aside from the odd phonecall), so we try to spend the weekends doing family stuff, spending time together.

Yes NdeP - I can cope if DH has to do a bit of work at home at the weekends but this is usually calls or reading through stuff which he can sometimes manage whilst sitting with dd whilst she watches tv for a bit (great parenting !!).

I do lose it big time though when he has to go into the office at the weekend but thankfully he is fully aware of that so only does it when it really can't be avoided.

same here.

There are times when I could quite merrily chuck his BlackBerry into the the river though.

Not a lot of people realise that a contract is exactly that- a two way arrangement between you and the company.

If when you agree to take on a job, and you company is really keen to have, you renegotiate (and you absolutely should renegotiate anything you want to at that stage, while the co is still keen as mustard and you still have bargaining power), then you can end up with the contract you want from the outset. You absolutely can refuse to sign those 48 hour disclaimers, you do not have to simply sign the contract placed in front of you.

Big business wouldn't just accept any terms set in front of them- in fact there's a whole industry devoted to contract negotiation, so why should you agree so easily to sign away what is effectively your private life? It is very valuable commodity, time, and not to be taken lightly.

Am surprised by the amount of people who work long hours in the office/ on weekends. do none of these companies offer working from home facilities? DH has to work long hours - in fits and starts but it is much nicer when he doesnt have to go into the office/ stay in office - but can do that work from home. at least he is around.

The fact is, duchesse, that the job DH does just isn't a 9-5 job. No amount of renegotiating will change that. So rather than negotiating the time element of the contract, most people in posts similar to DH's negotitiate the financial package.

I agree duchesse - my dh is actually far better at controlling his hours than me. He always takes a lunch break, and never works late. He also works 80% so has one day off a week. He isn't hugely ambitious but because he has valuable skills, he has still progressed and negotiated exactly the kind of job he wants. In some ways this is easier in the private sector because what you do has monetary value. In the public sector there is no capacity to take on extra staff often, you feel that you are letting clients and colleagues down if you don't do the work. In my own line of work, personal achievement is key, rather than corporate contribution - so if I am competing with people prepared to work 60 hours a week, well, I'm not really going to get a look in.

Dal, DH can do the odd thing from home (via remote access to company server), but the truth is that he is more likely to work MORE hours if he is working from home than if he was in the office.

If anything, it is more frustrating having him at home working, than it is having him away from home. Just because he is in the house doesn't mean that he is any more able to participate in the family stuff (tea, bath-times etc) than when he is at the office. Having him sat at the kitchen table with the kids finding it hard to understand that they can't disturb Daddy is much more stressful than him being home an hour or two later, imo.

I guess Nomdeplume, that if you are in that kind of industry, and you expect it from the outset, then that's what you buy into. There are some jobs however which do not need that level of commitment, yet still expect it of their staff.

Having said all of that, and painted DH as a bit of a workaholic, he is a wonderful, involved, interested father and partner when he is at home and does pull his weight around the house. It isn't like he has his nose to the grindstone at the expense of us at home.

well I am not sure I do want it to change, particularly.
I mean, if people do want to work these kind of hours and they are ambitious and ready to make compromises, then good on them, I think they should have an advantage due to their hard work.
for everyone else who wants more of a balance, well there is a price to pay. in certain industries/professions/job roles you can reach a certain level and if you want to keep a personal life going, then you will compromise on your personal advancement.
dh is in this position - he doesn't want a more senior position. good for him. that will limit his earning potential. hey ho.
when you choose a particular career path, I think it's pretty clear what is expected in terms of pressure and commitment. we're all adults and we make choices

my dh works irregular hours - he's in IT consultancy and this is the norm for his type of job.

Some weeks he will be working at home and and on some days we go out for lunch together, maybe pop out and do some domestic stuff during his working day, pick up the kids from school and so on.

On other days he will be working non-stop at home and we don't see him until half way through the evening.

A lot of the time however he will be working abroad, maybe able to come home at weekends or maybe not.

I think we have a good family life, but it comes in irregular chunks.

understood NDP - makes sense.
Duchesse - think you are spot on, depends what you sign up too. Think we all know company directors will never work 9-5 but as it has been said; they negotiate the package to renumerate them appropriately.
The problem is the expectation for people to conform and work longer hours unpaid when they are not appropriately renumerated.

Well my dh's IS a basically 9-5. I can't remember what time he is supposed to start - 8 or 8.30, I think. He is contracted to finish at 4.30 pm. A new job, and he is in the process, having just started, of negotiating and extra £8000 increase in salary and a £5000 bonus. As duchesse says, now, at the start is the time to do it. Great. Good for him. He is a VERY good negotiator. But, my point still remains. Hours are hours. Why do more.

My dh is a great husband and father. He is at home all weekend. No evening work. Devoted. He is not on his blackberry - he doesn't own one. But I still think that hours are hours, even for an Ops manager. Why give ? They would sack him, without a second thought, I am sure .

If the one doing the overtime and that person's partner is happy about the situation, I see absolutely no problem with this.

However if the person doing the work and unpaid overtime and/or the partner is not happy with it, then they should stop complaining about and do something constructive about it.

Find a job where you are happy, where you look forward to going to. I have tried 3 different professions so far, and I don't think I have found "the" job for me yet.

As previously said there are legal firms who specialises in contract negotiations.

There are so many options for you out there (moaning about it is not one of them )to turn the situation around.

I can't explain it any more elaborately than I already have.

FWIW, the Ops Director and her senior management team @ DH's company (not 'his' company, but ykwim) all exceed their contracted hours on a regular basis. It is par for the course.

If your DH was negotiated less working hours or no o/t or whatever, then good for him, but don't be surprised if his company do start asking a little more of him (I see he already does outisde his c/h from your OP).