AIBU to think this is a sign of toxic masculinity or just a nasty person?

[Fretty]

I will try to make this short. Promise!

To set the scene: We are expats in a dominantly English speaking country. My first language is not English, but I learnt English at school, went to uni in the UK and have been working in my field for over twelve years. I am in a Management position and regularly represent the company I work for (events, press, PR, etc.). I have an extended professional network and never had any comments on or issues with communicating. (What I am trying to say is I don't think the below was due to me not being clear.)

I was looking to partner with a particular company for a project. There is plenty of competition for them, not so much for us. It would be a project they couldn't get directly and would be a kind of a sub-contractor for us. They were recommended by an acquaintance, so I got in touch.

The guy cut me off after about 2 minutes with:
"Listen, I don't understand what you are talking about. Frankly, I took none of what you said in. You better think about it, write it down and send it in an e-mail. If I am interested, I will let you know.
[in a "don't call me, I will call you" tone]

I wasn't particularly bothered and asked for his e-mail. He tried to give it to me but got mingled up and was mixing up spelling, didn't remember if it was .co or .com, etc. In the end, he told me:
"Anyway, it's on the website. Look it up. Bye."

I was more surprised by his unprofessional behaviour then upset, but it got me thinking; Is this a sign of toxic masculinity? Being aggressive and dismissive to show that they are the boss? Or is this just plain arrogance and rudeness?

I don't think there is anything I could do about it now [definitelly not sending anything], but what would you have done? Is there any way to react to this kind of behaviour other than ignoring it?

PS: It was a scheduled call.

It was unprofessional as it never pays to burn bridges in business. However you made an unsolicited bid for business over the phone to someone you have never met. This is a technique used by sectors (e.g. recruitment agencies) who tend to bombard people in the expectation of getting a low return on those calls and that they piss off people. They are very thick skinned about the nuisance they cause. If you are going to approach people this way you will need to suck it up.

Otherwise don’t try to get business this way. Approach them, preferably through get an introduction, and ask for their time to talk about an opportunity. Allow they to agree to the pitch and set aside time. That’s how it is done and that is especially so in some English speaking cultures.

OP I think you're getting a bit of a rough ride on here. You asked if it could be "toxic masculinity " which for those of you who think otherwise is a thing. But that's another thread. So yes tell OP it's not that but do stop getting your knickers in a twist.

Agree he's just a bad mannered twat. No excuses for it. And it's entirely possible he talks to everyone he deems below him in the same way, male and female.

I think you're right to call people out on shitty behaviour as I also try to and I couldn't give a hoot of the race/sex/nationality of the offending knob.

Please please please do send oftenhangry's email

Plainspeaking I F-ing love Karen Brady and she would rip this guy a new one but I'm fairly confident that years back at the start of her career she wasn't the confident powerhouse she is now.

Km you can't compare toxic masculinity and femininity as the latter isn't responsible for rape and murder every day. HTH

True but if I open my sweary flood gates before 9am I'll be frothing by lunchtime. From the look of MN this am I'll need to balance my quota of bad words

Yes I'm not impressed by that alliance either but on balance I'm still a fan.

@KMSpico you really could have made your point without resorting to racist slurs and nasty stereotypes

@LemonTT the OP wasn't making an unsolicited bid for business, it was a scheduled call in which she was looking to hire his company.

I would put this down to straight racism but his misogyny made him think he would get away with it. What a jerk.

It doesn't help anybody to look for a category to which a person arbitrarily belongs and then to blame their individual behaviour on their category rather than on their own personal choices.

I agree that far too much silly identity politics goes on these days but it's equally invalid to ignore the existence of negative cultures. Gender (pervasive sex stereotypes) has harmful effects, some of which can reasonably be described as toxic masculinity.

That said, at an individual level like this we are all responsible for our own actions- he was just being a dick.

I like the old MNism 'Did you mean to be so rude?'.

Obviously a nasty person, probably a racist and/or a misogynist too although that would be hard to prove (which is how they get away with it).

The world is a shitty place and its sad that men people like this still get get ahead, and it seems that we are going back on issues like sexism and racism not forward.

I'm really sorry, but I'm not sure there is anything you can do . If he's no. 2 in the company I would think the boss either tolerates or agrees with his attitude.

It makes me so sad to think of all the missed opportunities and advancements we could have made if we actually lived in a meritocracy.

A scheduled call doesn’t mean it wasn’t an unsolicited pitch for business. Just from someone who got time in his diary. The man clearly wasn’t receptive to her pitch. There could be a multitude of reasons. We don’t know him or her in a business setting. She isn’t sure, so what do we know.

The fact that there is misogyny in the world doesn’t mean everything can be attributed to it. She should be discussing this with her peers and managers. They know her and her competency. They know the industry. There could be lessons she could learn. The fact that she is on here is telling. She doesn’t want informed or impartial feedback.

To me it sounds like he needed more information from her before he was willing to talk about it. She should have sent that before she made the call. Otherwise it is a one sided conversation which was a waste of his time. She got ahead of herself in building the relationship without explaining why and knowing him. I wouldn’t be receptive to a phone pitch if I had not read a brief. Plus she should have found out more about him from the acquaintance.

Aww, KM got deleted before I could respond sad times.

I always thought ‘toxic masculinity’ was the damage that pressure to conform to masculine stereotype (dominant, macho, strong etc) does to both the men conforming/seeking to conform (higher male suicide rates etc) and the people around them (violence etc).

I don’t think someone being an unprofessional (racist, misogynist) dick is necessarily ‘toxic masculinity’. They are probably just an unprofessional dick. ‘Toxic’ is often interpreted as saying that the men themselves are toxic - in reality ‘toxic masculinity’ is kinda saying that the men involved in this culture/behaviour are victims of it too.

Some people, however, are just dicks.

@LemonTT

I am not sure what being on this forum and asking about it is telling you. I thought the whole point of being on a chat group is to share experiences and discuss, no?

And just to clarify. It was not a pitch in any shape or form. He knew who I was, he knew when I was calling, and the person who put us in touch told him it's an opportunity for them.

The fact that you put everything back on me (she should have called, she should have found out more, she should have sent a brief...) is quite interesting.

I am not a young exec, who just started work. I had my fair share of difficult clients or pushy suppliers. I wasn't looking for sympathy (although it's quite soothing. Thanks, girls ) but wanted to see what other people think and if it relates to something that has been widely discussed recently.

Maybe I should have done those things, but it still doesn't give him, or anyone the licence to treat someone like that.

I'm entertained that offering someone work is now pitching for business.
In my understanding, and experience, pitching usually involves getting the other person to pay YOU, not the other way around! I'm prepared to be told l'm wrong on that, however!

The OP was trying to offer the guy she phoned work, which would have been money for his company. Can't see why that should be such a problem for anyone, when mostly people would be happy to receive an offer of work, giving them more money.

If he didn't have the time then all he needed to say was "I'm sorry we're too busy to take on this extra work/project", not the rest of it. As it stands, his rudeness (from whatever cause) has meant that his company has missed out on this project and doubtless any future similar project.

@Fretty it's fascinating how many people have (continually) willfully misinterpreted your post and keep trying to explain back to you how his response must have been your fault.

Also, I'm pretty sure, based on the Karen Brady reference, PlainSpeakingStraightTalking is the same previously banned poster whose posts were eradicated from the 'Mansplaining' thread in AIBU. That's why the posts are incoherent, emotional tangential rambles that pay zero heed to the facts.

What you surmise regarding the reason for the man's ridiculous response is probably spot on, and thank you for sharing it. I would agree that sending an email to the #1 in the company explaining why you will not be taking the business relationship further would be a great action to take; let the #2 do some introspection and explaining to #1 (whether he does or not, you will have done your part either way).

Thank you again for posting - I found it very valuable.