To rant about “evil” people

[Stormypaige]

What’s all this shit about ‘evil’ people? Begum is ‘evil’, Bulger killers are ‘evil’, Trump is ‘evil’, etc?

Kids who still believe in magic, or religious fanatics might talk like this, but adult / balanced / rational people should know better!!

Probably got something to do with gutter-press headlines trying to dehumanise and sensationalise people like Begum.

When exactly do people become ‘evil’? At birth? At the point they commit a crime? What about when they were still planning the crime- were they evil then? Or before?

We dehumanise at our peril. Understanding is the only way to prevent such crimes in society. Understanding doesn’t mean excusing it. But no understanding can come from the term evil.

Damaged? Definitely.
Worthy of punishment? Of course.
Unforgivable? Quite possibly.

Evil? Grow up.

Sadly some people are.

Like who?

Read up on any serial killer and I would say 95% of them either have a seriously fucked up childhood or some form of mental illness or both. Or are mental illnesses being "born bad"?

His name is James Fallon and he wrote a book “The Psycopath Inside”.

Do you know what evil means? It just means profoundly immoral.

its almost as you have never heard of personality disorders. Some people have no sense of morality. This would make them proud my ammoral. If this is coupled with perversions or characteristics that create a predeispiritions to ‘evil’ acts then yes, that person is profoundly immoral.

Do you believe a personality disorder/mental illness means someone is evil, then?

But the doc proves you aren't born evil, just with a higher disposition. Nurture can balance that increased risk

@BejamNostalgia Exactly!

It's always sounded a bit childish to me (evil vs good) but honestly I have experienced it and don't know what other word to use?
There are people who are messed up, , narcissistic, unkind, selfish, etc. And then there are evil people. They are not the same thing. I have put up with a lot of shit in my life believing there was no such thing as evil.

hellenbackagen I too have heard and dealt with some evil people in my job. When a baby has been sexually abused/raped, thrown against a wall or had cigarettes put out on them. I would ask anyone of you to say what is not fucking evil about that. Maybe no-one is born evil I'm not a psychologist or clever enough to answer that, nature and nurture must play a part. But what sort of person does this to a defenceless baby often their own off-spring. I can only conclude they are truly morally evil. As for Ms Begum her beliefs and lack of remorse for her actions make her morally evil.

im reading about the alesha macpahil murder. i defy anyone to tell me that the boy who did this is not evil.

a 6 years old girl suffered 117 injuries.
a boy of 16 is convicted. - commiting "some of the most wicked and evil crimes this court has ever heard in decades of dealing with depravity"

do people genuinely think evil is a figment of the imagination?

Absolutely I heard this on the news tonight. Jesus the police were crying in the courtroom over 100 injuries. Evil bastard why did he do this what goes on in a brain to make you do this. It can only be pure evil.

police see the worst of everything - i am one. not always able to convey the truth for obvious reasons.
but id have hated to be have been on that job.

I’m with you OP. I’ve been thinking this for a while. It’s not just the “evil” thing, it’s also the descriptions of criminals as monsters, demons or the devil. They’re not. They are often very unremarkable people as far as anyone can tell, privately doing unspeakable things. We need to accept that these people aren’t monsters. They’re human, and that’s terrifying.

My rapist wasn’t evil, even though rape is often brought into the “evil monster” discourse. He was a very normal man who has a very normal life with a very normal family. What he did was undeniably awful and it changed my life forever, but he wasn’t inherently evil. Just a horrible, power-hungry bastard.

Op you said that people aren’t ‘born evil’
I’m not so sure
I know it’s all nurture/nature
But I think some people are just ‘bad’

Regarding the "what is evil" debate, I think our life experiences define our use of the word. I think someone with an abusive childhood is likely to have a different view of the word, but that's just my opinion.

Thing is I've dealt with loads of adoptees....kids of criminals.
Adopted by teachers or police or professional people.
And who are complete fuckwits anyway.
I think nature is a thing unfortunately. Nurture can only do so much.

@hellenbackagen

It's a lot more complicated than nature vs nurture. It's about the importance of our early experiences in building secure attachments. Adopted children are damaged. It's not that they have no responsibility for their actions, but they are at a disadvantage because of their start in life.

I'm an adoptive mum with 2 DDs ((10 and 7 next month). My DDs never lived with their birth parents, but DD1 has been diagnosed as suffering from PTSD and anxiety. They also lost their foster carers, who looked after them during their first year. (It's great that SS do foster to adopt now.)

A lot of children also suffer from Foetal Alcohol Syndrome, of are born addicted to drugs, thanks to drug use by their birth parents. A lot of them have been affected by DV in their family of origin (even if they only experienced it in utero). And obviously some have suffered abuse themselves.

Both my DDs have attachment issues and are very clingy. They get worried if they don't know where DH and I are.

Obviously, this doesn't mean that all adopted children will grow up to become criminals, same as not all abuse victims become abusers.

Some people are evil though, just like some are kind, some are good, some are judgy, some are fair.... Some are evil. It's just how the world is, some are nice and some are not nice.

I don't know what you'd call serial killers, terrorists, rapists, pedophiles etc if not evil? They're not just normal people who have done bad.

And yes, many evil people have had a horrible past, and that helped them to become what they are, but it's something that was in them anyway that's why others can go through the same and not become evil and cruel and for some it even makes them kinder. There are even people who admit to having evil thoughts about hurting others or abusing others, but they know right from wrong and still have a little compassion so they don't give in to those thoughts the way a truly evil person would. Seriously, what kind of person can look at another human and feel no way about killing them? Even look at a baby and feel OK to hurt or even kill that baby? Nobody good.

I mean, if they're just normal people who have just done something bad, why are they locked up for public safety and things like that? It's because their just bad inside, they don't look at things the way others do.

While I can get why people might feel uncomfortable with the label of evil, I prefer that to people who decide it must be X mental illness or Y experience they've gone through that caused people who do these things to do it, like they know with any type of certainty. At least with "evil" it focuses on the action, it defines people by their actions, and doesn't pretend to know exactly the cause behind it beyond the nebulous concept that evil is.

An article that I read on the BBC today about a study shows evidence that nearly a third of young people experience trauma and a quarter of them develop symptoms of PTSD. A lot of the information on Adverse Child Experiences shows evidence that 80 to nearly 90% have at least one. A lot of kids go through horrible things and most of us, even if we have parents and/or communities who encouraged us to do so, don't become murderers. Most don't become rapists.

We can bring up the white coat and authority affects on actions all we want, that doesn't explain away many of the situations of horrible acts against others that we see in society. Plenty of people do horrible things with no one guiding them and people within horrible environments rebel against it. The vast majority of child abuse survivors don't go on perpetuate violence and plenty of people with peachy keen childhoods do horrible things. We don't know human behaviour as well as we'd like, it's complicated and within that complication, people do evil things. Environments including the people around us and our experiences can create pressure, there is evidence that biology plays a part, but there is no a = b. Saying they did things because they're traumatised ignores the vast majority of traumatised people who don't do that.

Personally, I'd rather be defined by my actions than be defined by what my parents did or my community or my medical conditions.