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Original poster

To rant about “evil” people

119 replies

Stormypaige · 20/02/2019 22:14

What’s all this shit about ‘evil’ people? Begum is ‘evil’, Bulger killers are ‘evil’, Trump is ‘evil’, etc?

Kids who still believe in magic, or religious fanatics might talk like this, but adult / balanced / rational people should know better!!

Probably got something to do with gutter-press headlines trying to dehumanise and sensationalise people like Begum.

When exactly do people become ‘evil’? At birth? At the point they commit a crime? What about when they were still planning the crime- were they evil then? Or before?

We dehumanise at our peril. Understanding is the only way to prevent such crimes in society. Understanding doesn’t mean excusing it. But no understanding can come from the term evil.

Damaged? Definitely.
Worthy of punishment? Of course.
Unforgivable? Quite possibly.

Evil? Grow up.

OP posts:
Nibledbyducks · 21/02/2019 00:55

The word evil describes immoral behaviour, but morals move and change according to time, place, culture and society. Normal people kill all the time, soldiers do, we call that moral if we're on the side of the victors. Once upon a time gay men were considered evil, so were witches. Shamima Begum has for instance said that she feels that the victims of the Manchester bombing didn't deserve what happened to them, but also said that neither did the women and children killed in Syria. I agree. It's not less evil because we feel morally right to have attaked ISIS when innocent people die.

PerspicaciaTick · 21/02/2019 00:57

It was not within the bounds of normal or acceptable human behaviour.

Unfortunately history proves time and again that it is very normal human behaviour. Reprehensible, immoral and atrocious - absolutely. But also something that humans (especially in groups) seem to be drawn towards.

SleepingStandingUp · 21/02/2019 01:01

Your put my daughter's life in the balance and I'd probably do most of those things
Except what possible scenario would your daughters life be put at risk unless you raped a 3 yo? And given people do that to their own kids... What possible situation would force you to plant a bomb in a music arena or a train station?

I don't think someone who kills their abuser is evil. I don't think someone who kills their child's abuser or similar is evil. Not every killer is evil, life isn't that simple.

But there's a huge difference between a woman stabbing her daughters rapist and a woman going out looking for children to abuse and murder for the fun of it.

YourSarcasmIsDripping · 21/02/2019 01:08

I tend to think labelling people evil is unhelpful because it implies something innate, that nobody can or could do anything about.

It doesn't really if you look at evil as just another descriptor like despicable,wrong,bad ,horrible etc.

And tbh you can't "fix" someone who wants to harm others . You can't "fix" someone that would rape their own child. You can't "fix" someone that enjoys destroying another person be it physically,mentally or emotionally. Regardless of what you call them.

And to be fair I think it's very arrogant to think that you can "fix" and prevent it all and there are numerous victims that became victims because of that arrogance. Kids returned to abusive parents, criminals set free only to harm again, based on the justice system's version of "fixed".

YourSarcasmIsDripping · 21/02/2019 01:17

Sleeping you asked if there was a set of circumstances where someone would do that. I've honestly replied,because I know I'd be capable of many things I abhor in that particular circumstance.
Others would have different circumstances. Some don't have any at all, as they enjoy the deeds they do. Some need a little push and then realise they enjoy it and that's all it takes.

NunoGoncalves · 21/02/2019 01:19

The problem is that people use evil to mean different things, so then the thread becomes an argument about semantics, which is never fun.

If evil means despicable, heinous, immoral, etc. then many acts are evil.

If describing a person as evil means that a person was born "bad" and was destined to be a rapist/murderer/terrorist/whatever, then I agree with OP.

RedHatsDoNotSuitMe · 21/02/2019 01:22

what a fascinating thread!

I don't like the word "evil" as described above, because it suggests an "other".... like there's the devil residing within you.

As humans, we are responsible for our choices.

But we often make choices based on our experiences.

I find the 'hive mind' very uncomfortable, and it's on here all the time... Poster after poster weighing in at an OP. That, to me, is quite "evil" as well.

gluteustothemaximus · 21/02/2019 01:23

People commit evil acts. Immoral and wicked acts. Rape, murder, torture, all committed without empathy or remorse.

Evil acts, not necessarily evil people.

YourSarcasmIsDripping · 21/02/2019 01:26

If describing a person as evil means that a person was born "bad" and was destined to be a rapist/murderer/terrorist/whatever, then I agree with OP.

It would be interesting to have a study done and see how many people actually still think of "evil" that way,their background and ages etc.

hellenbackagen · 21/02/2019 01:29

I still want to know how many of you sea with the evil acts? If you do t believe in evil people but believe in evil acts how many in this thread deal with those evil acts?

NunoGoncalves · 21/02/2019 01:29

It would be interesting to have a study done and see how many people actually still think of "evil" that way,their background and ages etc

Would it?

I mean, people on here imply it all the time in threads about infamous murderers. "Oh, so and so is EVIL! Don't try to excuse them by saying there was a reason for what they did—there wasn't! They're just EVIL!"

hellenbackagen · 21/02/2019 01:29

Deal
Not sea *

SleepingStandingUp · 21/02/2019 01:31

YourSarcasmIsDripping as a thought experiment then yes, you might plant a bomb to potentially kill thousands to save your daughters life if terrorists kidnapped her and threatened you, or rape a baby to stop someone hurting yours. But realistically that doesn't happen. So I don't believe that most people wouldn't do those things given the kind of circumstances that lead most people who do, to doing those kind of things. Especially if I add in to your own child into my comment about So you believe that given a certain set of circumstances you would...

SleepingStandingUp · 21/02/2019 01:32

Poster after poster weighing in at an OP. That, to me, is quite "evil" as well
So OP doesn't think there's such a thing as evil people but posters who disagree with her are evil? Eh??

YourSarcasmIsDripping · 21/02/2019 01:33

The religious connotations of "evil" with the added bonus of "sins of the father" and "original sin" are well known and probably what makes some posters uncomfortable with the use of it and why they find it dehumanising,othering ,as some kind of absolution and a self preservation tactic .
Tbh as a society I think we're past that .

gluteustothemaximus · 21/02/2019 01:35

Thing is, if you believe some people are evil then you've taken away responsibility. As in, 'they did that because they are evil'. No, they did an evil thing, and they chose to do it.

YourSarcasmIsDripping · 21/02/2019 01:36

No,they are evil because they did those things.

Justagirlwholovesaboy · 21/02/2019 01:39

I don’t believe a person is born evil, I believe they can make a choice, and once that choice is made they should live with the consequences.

TheLazyDuchess · 21/02/2019 01:45

I think evil is a descriptions for vile, depraved acts, that the rational, sane mind can't comprehend, without turning to psychology, which often has conflicting or no answers. Immorality isn't just a religious concept. I'm not sure if I believe in God or the devil, but I do believe we shouldn't fear either, other humans are the problem.

Normal people that aren't sadistic or perverse or disturbed themselves, often can't understand what drives others to cruelty and murder. I do think that's one of the reasons why the whole true crime genre so popular, people want to try to make sense in their heads, of why the worst sorts of criminals commit the worst crimes (and what were the extent of those crimes)?

TheLazyDuchess · 21/02/2019 01:46

*descriptions

YourSarcasmIsDripping · 21/02/2019 01:49

"Oh, so and so is EVIL! Don't try to excuse them by saying there was a reason for what they did—there wasn't! They're just EVIL!"

What reason can there be to rape a child or murder someone and enjoy it? There isn't any. Evil is intent,premeditation ,lack of empathy and remorse. Something else gets overlooked a lot of the time as well..such crimes change a person too in major ways,especially if they get a "taste" for it. The fact that mummy didn't loved them enough and daddy beat them up becomes irrelevant.

Gone4Good · 21/02/2019 07:14

Trump is evil? What an incredibly ignorant thing to say!

The media and DC insiders don't like him because he's not a career politician who's dependent on their money/support and therefor not under their control - is that why you think he's evil - because they told you he is?

Maybe you'd like to say what he has done that is evil. Is it because he loves the U.S. and is upholding the U.S. constitution? Or is it because he stopped the North Korea threat? I remember mums-netters being scared to death when NK were testing missiles over Japan. Maybe you think President Trump is evil because he's increased jobs and brought millions out of poverty. Or do you think he's evil because he wants to protect us from the flow of drugs coming up from Central America?

Obama could be considered evil because he divided the U.S. with his race baiting. (Trayvon Martin, Mike Brown etc) I'll never forgive Obama for that.

I voted for Trump and like millions of other Americans, will do so again.

adaline · 21/02/2019 07:35

I don’t believe a person is born evil, I believe they can make a choice, and once that choice is made they should live with the consequences.

That's a very simplistic view. Some people are born into situations where they stand no chance of having a normal upbringing - I think when your early years are a mixture of torture, abuse and cruelty then the decisions you make are not the same decisions that a person with a normal upbringing has to make.

Young children whose lives are truly fucked up from day dot often never stand a chance at becoming normal. Look at cases of modern day "feral children" as an example - they're deprived of any kind of human interaction and normal behaviour and as a result can never learn to speak properly or to interact with people. It's easy to see how children with slightly less fucked up childhoods can go on to do fucked up things - they've never had anyone teach them how to be normal humans.

ILoveMaxiBondi · 21/02/2019 08:40

I do, however, feel that claiming someone committed a heinous act because they had a dreadful childhood effectively takes the blame from them.

That isn’t something I said.

ILoveMaxiBondi · 21/02/2019 08:48

had a job tonight
person has mental health and addiction issues but nothing is ever their fault because its everyone elses fault they got like this and they ranted and cried and screamed they needed looking after

and if you dont - you learn - because you will keep getting arrested and put before a court and given countless interventions
and if you keep ignoring those interventions whose fault is that?

You know, I’m sure (hope!) you do in your job, that long term substance abuse changes the make up and development of the brain don’t you? If that person has been abusing for 20+ years you know you’re not dealing with a normally developed brain capable of making the same decisions as you would make in some situations. Right?

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