Parents refuse to allow learning robot in class

[Yabbers]

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Kier has an auto immune condition and can’t attend school when he is poorly which is half the time. A fantastic piece of kit, a learning robot, is used in 850 schools around the world, but 11 of 400 parents have refused to allow this into his school in Edinburgh. It is considered to be so secure it would take millions of years to break the encryption and there have been no incidents in all the years it has been used.

AIBU to assume these parents are Mumsnetters who bandy about “Data Protection” and “safeguarding” and because of this non existent risk have stopped this child being a part of his class.

I think concerns based on the footage being viewed by perverts really don't quite get what these perverts are after. If only it were as innocuous as watching children do maths. And frankly if they just want to watch kids on film and no more, then they can walk down the street, or switch on their TV. The idea that they'd hack the ipad is laughable.

If it's based on security issues with some children needing to stay anonymous, then can't they be gathered in one class and kian in another.

And for confidential conversations, getting changed etc, the teacher can switch it off. It's no different from making sure the kids are out of the room before having those conversations.

And yes, it could be made static but the advantage of it being swivelable is that kian can join in group activities, and maybe be able to continue with his friendships.

It's just a clever way of him being able to Skype in too lessons.

Oh and if I was a parent who had objected, the LEA would have had to 'pander' to my wishes. High court document that protected the safety of my child. Moving him to another class would have been disruptive to the other class and would have required another child from the other class to be moved.
I'm all for tech in schools but not to the detriment of the safety of other students. You will never know the home life about the students unless you need to know. Apart from if you were in the school with my eldest who told everyone why he wasn't allowed to be in some things.

How would the iPad only work if it was at home?
Genuine question. Surely it would work anywhere there is WiFi?

I'm not completely against it but like I said we had kids who just couldn't be on the footage. Until you have a kid under some kind of protection order I don't think people understand.
I've had parents had to move immediately and move schools immediately due to the careless sharing of a photo by a parent that has the child in the background.
Yes they could be moved classes but sometimes these kids have been moved numerous times and lost everything and miss out on loads because they can't take part in plays and assemblies because of the risks involved.
The risk of someone visiting the house and watching out of curiosity while the boy is doing lessons and seeing a child they know isn't that far fetched. I know someone in this situation.

Moving them to another class is a possibility although what happens in one form entry. There are also some kids who moving class would be very distressing (kids with AS for a start).

I too would also have concerns for the SN children who wet theirselves have meltdowns etc.
None of the school's I've been in have a lot of parent helpers but we have had issues in the past with playground gossip discussing other child's behaviour, reading, SN and I've seen it on here.

If it was pointing only at the teacher then I would worry less.

It's to ensure he can get an education. Friendships can be maintained in other ways.

I've found a good video from the makers if anyone is curious.

I understand the excessive safeguarding concerns, especially where children are in care or adopted and birth parents are trying to locate them. And some parents are just afraid of the unknown. The silly thing is that many classrooms have internet connected CCTV and TVs containing camera/microphone - those are very vulnerable to being accessed remotely as the Snowden leaks showed the UK govt were doing regularly.

Maybe ask for a class of kids where the parents don't object or consider another school?

Robots are only going to become more common in classrooms as the govt seeks to improve education and at the same time
reduce staffing costs.

If there are so many schools using the technology would it be an option to use one of those already in place?

As a parent I would be concerned about the following:

Distraction to the children in the classroom (we all know how easy it is to be distracted). Will having a camera affect how kids participate in classrooms?

Effect on the teacher- will they feel self conscious being filmed - will it affect their teaching style?

How will the audience be limited to just the pupil? What about visitors to the house

As mentioned above, how will any child who needs security for adoption, witness protection and many other reasons be protected?

We are relying on security guarantees by a company wanting to sell a product

I think all the above reasons warrant a compromise, an iPad facing the teacher so long as they are happy with this.

*If it's based on security issues with some children needing to stay anonymous, then can't they be gathered in one class and kian in another.

And for confidential conversations, getting changed etc, the teacher can switch it off. It's no different from making sure the kids are out of the room before having those conversations.*

I don't think moving what could be a large group of already vulnerable children into another class is at all a sensible suggestion.

Classes are often split so that there are a range of abilities, SEND, emotional needs etc across the year group. How would it be fair to expect one teacher to cope with a larger than usual amount of children with extra needs? Not to mention the upset/damage it could cause to them just by moving them away from their secure friendships and relationships.

As for confidential conversations, these are children we are talking about, they don't schedule their thoughts. Confidential and sensitive matters arise all through the teaching day in my class and I deal with them as privately as I can. I know that an ASD child who has frequent meltdowns would simply not accept having the robot in the classroom as their anxiety would skyrocket.

If parent helpers are spreading gossip and or private information that needs to be tackled by the school as it shouldn't be the norm.

So far, no one has answered my concerns over these issues.

Effect on the teacher- will they feel self conscious being filmed - will it affect their teaching style?

^^ This.

As I've said, as a teacher I would refuse to be filmed. Just having another adult in the room can sometimes impact on your style and teaching. Big no from many teachers, I think.

Auntie I guess this has answered my question. As a parent If the teacher feels it would impact how comfortable they are teaching my child it would be a no from me. I’d hate someone filming me doing my job which in turn would compromise my ability to do it. Let’s face it there’s enough restriction on teaching style as it is

Being filmed wouldn't bother me at all but we are all different. I've been filmed many a time for research and for training videos and exercises. I don't change my teaching just because a camera is on me.

I wonder if all the parents complaining about privacy know that the iPads in every class have cameras on them, as do the laptops in many schools. Our IWBs have cameras too, my laptop has a camera. Staff have mobile phones with cameras including people who come into the classroom such as parent helpers (who are the WORST when it comes to confidentiality), external organisations like visiting authors/agencies/companies and even workmen from IT and the council. Cameras literally everywhere. Plus a lot of schools do Skype sessions with other schools either locally, nationally or globally.

It's amazing though, how none of these parents are ripping their children's logoed uniforms off the moment they walk out of the door, pulling balaclavas over their heads checking they're still wrapped in cotton wool and hurriedly pushing them into the car when they pick them up from school.

I do feel sorry for the boy and other children who might be affected by objections to the use of these robots. There was a girl in my dd school with a long absence due to sickness and she has really struggled with the return to school. Maybe something like this could have helped her? The points pp have made objecting to the use of the robot are valid and should be listened to, but I feel like we should be looking for ways to address these concerns not simply wanting to write off the whole idea.

In the original article it mentioned the clash between people's legal right to privacy and the legal rights of the disabled in this case. I really think we need to look at ensuring people can feel confident that their privacy will be maintained.

Teachers could receive more training and support to work with the robot. I can see this being a valuable learning experience for the children in the class if it is combined with the right level of support. If it is just plonked in the class and the teacher expected to get on with lessons as usual, yes I think we can all foresee lots of problems.

This would all cost money yes, but surely there is money in the world of tech development and making really secure systems. Maybe some sponsors could be found to fund use of the robot within schools.

Interestingly, I started out thinking ‘what’s the problem’ and this thread has left be thinking harder about some of the privacy and safeguarding points.

I do instinctively have concerns about a class being streamed externally on a consistent basis. I can also see the robot is a potentially great way for children to participate in the class remotely and by any reasonable measure the risks of the system being abused must be pretty small.

I would say that those in favour of the robot on this thread haven’t really done anything to allay or respond to the specific concerns raised.

My biggest worry in the video above is when asked if it could be hacked I'm sure she said I don't think so. It's a while since I watched it so not 100% on the wording but I don't think so isn't good enough for me.

Stop making a fool I know kids who travel to and from school with no logo top on and either a plain T-Shirt or a coat over the top and spend their lives looking over their shoulders to make sure they haven't been seen by the abuser on the way to and from school. It's not about wrapping in cotton wool.

That makes me so sad for the unwell child and their family

Dogdidit - In no way am I ever referring to children with safeguarding issues, I have said that somewhere up thread.

It's amazing though, how none of these parents are ripping their children's logoed uniforms off the moment they walk out of the door

Amazing also how many of the parents have their children’s pictures on FB and allow their kids to take mobiles into the classroom, according to some posts on the local FB group where it is being discussed.

The hospital (big NHS children’s hospital) mentioned the possibility of one of these for my daughter. They only have a couple so far and my daughter made a faster recovery than expected but these will become more and more commonplace.

I’m really not sure how you balance the rights of a kid with leukaemia, say (the offer of a robot for my daughter came from the kids cancer ward) with a kid escaping from a violent abuser.

Both have the exact same right to an education.

I have massive sympathy for both. I think it’s probably right that a judge decides.

There are internet schools already set up for children who can't/don't want to attend brick building schools. Why couldn't Kier be registered at an internet school?
Keir’s problem isn’t with education, it is with isolation. Same with my DD. During her last stay in hospital she got a day pass to go on a school trip with her friends. Her reaction, and theirs, was amazing. People underestimate how important it is for children who spend their lives overcoming things most adults never have to worry about, to be included with their peers.

Someone mentioned an entitlement to tuition. DD had this as well. It amounted to about half an hour per day. They were so short of primary teachers she had a secondary teacher who hadn’t ever taught the primary curriculum. He spoke to the school and discovered her class were reading a book so he came and read the book to her.

There are not a whole lot of good options for children in this situation. In areas where there might have been once upon a time, these are the services quietly cut in the past 5 years because it’s easy to do without a public outcry.

I’m really not sure how you balance the rights of a kid with leukaemia, say (the offer of a robot for my daughter came from the kids cancer ward) with a kid escaping from a violent abuser.

I think it’s possible to meet the rights of both without having to choose. And in most situations where these have been used, that is happening.

My daughter was offered 1 hour per week tutoring, on the proviso that she didn’t go into school at all. At that point, she was just about capable of going into school for an hour a day, a couple of days a week, so we went for that option instead.

Tutors are funded by the NHS. So unsurprisingly, they are currently scarce.

Having a child with a serious illness or life long disability is like slipping into the upside down - you don’t know what it’s like until you’ve been there (I realise the same is true with families that are escaping abuse).

My child was on a complete isolation ward at one point, couldn’t even see other patients, very limited visitors. The mental health affects are awful, this is the kind of thing the robots can help with.

What about the rights of the teacher not to be filmed all day? Teachers are already under unbearable scrutiny, I think it would have punched me over the edge.

If a child in my class had become isolated due to disability or illness and was suffering, I'd put them above my own desire not to be filmed.

I think the important distinction is that this is live streaming, not recording.

Most people would hate to be recorded in their job, but are OK with video conferences/skyping sometimes when necessary. In most jobs, a refusal to do a Skype meeting would be met with little sympathy, where an actual meeting isn't practical.

And yes that could be covertly filmed, but so could anything.

I would have huge concerns around privacy and wouldn't agree to the robot's presence until they'd been dealt with. Which they probably could be.

No concerns with the security of the steam.

As others have said, my concerns would be around the possibility that people could have access to the classroom without the teacher's knowledge.

Never mind whether dad's a paedophile. What if he (or mum, carer, nurse, tutor, neighbour, aunt, uncle) is just a dick? If my kid was struggling with their education or had behavioural issues, I would want to know who was witnessing that.

I suspect that:

• a fixed position of the camera
• two way streaming so the teacher could see who was watching
• an agreement that the part of the classroom in view of the camera wouldn't be used for changing (very easy for teacher to forget to turn it off)
• automatic timers so it didn't record private conversations with other parents outside of lesson time

Would be enough to reassure me, and would still provide a useful tool for the child at home.

But an iPad streaming the classroom with no control over what was happening at the other end? No way Jose.