Parents refuse to allow learning robot in class

[Yabbers]

link

Kier has an auto immune condition and can’t attend school when he is poorly which is half the time. A fantastic piece of kit, a learning robot, is used in 850 schools around the world, but 11 of 400 parents have refused to allow this into his school in Edinburgh. It is considered to be so secure it would take millions of years to break the encryption and there have been no incidents in all the years it has been used.

AIBU to assume these parents are Mumsnetters who bandy about “Data Protection” and “safeguarding” and because of this non existent risk have stopped this child being a part of his class.

There are internet schools already set up for children who can't/don't want to attend brick building schools. Why couldn't Kier be registered at an internet school?

If the device was set up at the front of the class so it could only see the teacher it would surely miss parts of the lesson? I'm always moving around my classroom and spend a minimal amount of time standing at the front instructing. Most feedback is given 1-1 to children as I circulate. How would that work with a device like this?

I would certainly want reassurances that it would be completely switched off when class was finished as I spend a lot of time having confidential conversations with children, parents and other school staff in my classroom. Not to mention wolfing down lunch whilst marking!

What assurances have the teacher/management got that only that one particular child would be viewing what was happening in the class?

The main problem with this is the IT and tech at Edinburgh council wouldn’t be able to support this because they are approx 20 years behind the rest of the world.
This will put me to anyone who has sat in a child planning meeting but Edinburgh council has systematically and deliberately avoided using the millions of pounds available to them and some amazing software for no reason other than they are dinosaurs who can’t tell WiFi from 4G.
They will have framed this question in a way that ensures no one has to learn how to plug it in and charge it.
I blame not the teachers, the are willing and able but the management and HQ will not support it. Ipads are carried back and forth because a safe way to charge it in school cannot be found. I cannot stress this enough.

I don't think it is unreasonable to be concerned about the privacy of the other children in the class. In my opinion privacy is important for every child. Just thinking about the things that have happened with our p1's recently - a child pooed his pants, another child disclosed to the class sensitive issues about his mum (drug use), another child with additional learning needs had a melt down then wept on the floor about his dead parent. Anyone who has ever been in a class knows that these kinds of incidents are fairly commonplace. Why should those children not have the right to privacy?

And for those saying direct the camera towards the teacher - teachers move....a lot!

I really feel for the child involved, and for all children who miss school for the myriad reasons that children miss school. I don't think that I would have been a parent who automatically said no - but I would have been asking a LOT of questions. It is effectively like letting the child's parents/siblings/granny/visitor etc into the class room.

Just to clarify, there are teachers and parents on this thread who have an issue with a live stream video that isn't recorded being viewed by a student who can only see it if he is at home and whose father can be DBS checked?, so I assume you also object to parent volunteers and other children having their eyes open in school in case they see other students or staff themselves?

People on here are so paranoid and misinformed. I've didn't a lot of my career working with sex offenders they are not interested in a class full of children. The dark web is literally brimming with the material they are actually looking for.
Do you all keep your children in balaclavas? If not they are being recorded and observed by numerous security staff daily, some on live feed where they can zoom and even follow a child on camera if they like, whose predilections you have no idea of, who will have their own mobile phones to have to record Abby screen they like without leaving a digital footprint of the recording. But no stop a child engaging with classroom learning, it's definitely a risk 🙄

so I assume you also object to parent volunteers and other children having their eyes open in school in case they see other students or staff themselves?

The Dad can be DBS checked but there is no guarantee that it would only be Dad who had access to the ipad.

I’m a teacher, I would completely object to this.
I do not want my whole working day filmed, watched, overly scrutinised. We are already held accountable for EVERYTHING, every small decision, every sentence we say (during an observation, it’s anxiety inducing for thousands of teachers), every question we pose. I have nothing to hide, I am a good teacher. But I would leave the school if I was forced to do this.
Schools can’t afford to loses good teachers at this moment in time.

What about the interactive white boards/promethium boards with cameras that are definitely hackable. And the teachers computers? And students using iPads and laptops.
There are hundreds of ways this can be policed.
Also all those objecting what is your home like for hackable expending devices? Xbox kinnect? Streaming YouTube?

There is a difference between safeguarding and privacy. I think privacy in itself is a right that we should offer to our children in schools.

Fleeting images of children walking about a supermarket is not the same as daily, intensive filming of their every move, mistake, argument, row etc.

That's really not how it works. It's used in a teacher/class situation and a small group situation. It's only used in activities the child will be able to participate in online, so not things like art, PE etc.

The iPad won't work anywhere else but home.

The teacher would know if someone else was using the iPad, there is communication between them and the child.

Please educate yourselves before making inane comments.

*so I assume you also object to parent volunteers and other children having their eyes open in school in case they see other students or staff themselves?

The Dad can be DBS checked but there is no guarantee that it would only be Dad who had access to the ipad.*

This exactly.

How can the parents categorically say that no one but the child and father will see the live stream? Or that screen capture will not be used?

I don't think it is unreasonable to be concerned about the privacy of the other children in the class. In my opinion privacy is important for every child. Just thinking about the things that have happened with our p1's recently - a child pooed his pants, another child disclosed to the class sensitive issues about his mum (drug use), another child with additional learning needs had a melt down then wept on the floor about his dead parent. Anyone who has ever been in a class knows that these kinds of incidents are fairly commonplace. Why should those children not have the right to privacy?

And this. Schools are safe places for many children. Having an outside view into the room, however limited, will change the nature of the classroom environment.

I wouldn't be comfortable with this.

The rights of a child with an illness or disability do not automatically trump those of his classmates. I want my children to know that their privacy is important - being filmed 8 hours a day without their direct consent does not do that.

What would be good is if those who have more information about the technology than is provided in the short link above were able to respond to people's concerns in a calm and informative way instead of being defensive and rude. Posts like this can either teach people something and influence their opinions or alienate people and cement their discord.

Also interesting that there’s no suggestion about how this is dealt with in hundreds of other schools. This isn’t new or unprecedented. Almost as if a completely backward looking council is continuing to fight technology. Presumably the parents in the school and the parents on this thread aren’t more aware than everyone else?
And privacy is a joke, parent helpers are a massive thing in this catchment, like 15 or 20 a day, all ready willing and able to tell you all about what was said in class that day. The differenence between what everyone would like and what is reasonable is a massive gulf.

So @Iamtheworst how do other schools deal with issues surrounding pupil privacy?

I have no idea with specific reference to this tech. But if it’s being used in other schools they will have faced this problem.
I’m guessing this wasn’t included in the information to parents.
I’m guessing your point was no one knows, but people are adamant it’s impossible.

And privacy is a joke, parent helpers are a massive thing in this catchment, like 15 or 20 a day, all ready willing and able to tell you all about what was said in class that day. The differenence between what everyone would like and what is reasonable is a massive gulf.

This doesn't mean that privacy is a joke or unimportant, just that at your school and in society in general children's privacy is not respected.

Haven’t read the full thread ,just the OP title and first post and genuinely thought it said “parents refuse to learn the robot”
Everyone should know the robot ..they are being unfair

That wasn't my point. My point is that if people on this thread have information about the tech that would dispel concerns why not simply share it rather than call us all idiots. I believe that there are work arounds for most things .

I didn’t call anyone an idiot. My point was Edinburgh council Education dept could not be less supportive. I did point out there’s lots of devices that are hackable and have cameras.

This doesn't mean that privacy is a joke or unimportant, just that at your school and in society in general children's privacy is not respected.

Yes, and in the same catchment about the school we are talking about. Respecting privacy has never been a thing.

I’m not blasting anyone. I am totally steamed with the council. People who should be making decisions and sharing info are not doing that.

^ made a mistake, not in the catchment, in the cluster. Tired brain combined with my vested interest in this story.

I know you didn't Iamtheworst im sorry my comment suggested otherwise. That was really about the tone in general about those with concerns.
I agree that EC have dealt with this extraordinarily badly.

There is also the issue of double standards thinking about this more, we do lots of training with DC about not using web cams, how they don't know who is at the other end of their computer, my DC are fed up with me banging on about it. To have someone live stream them for hours to a strange house would be total double standards on my part and undo all of the privacy messages about online use that I been encouraging them to think about.
It has been an interesting topic to think about OP and the more I think about it the more reservations I have. But it is good to think through.

A simple solution to having a child off school and still have access to lessons is facetime. Ipad in school is clamped onto a desk that points to the teacher and whiteboard. The child is at home and can actively take part. The children who have been given consent can also chat with the child in breaks etc. There are sn schools in London that do this when a child is absent for illness, lift breakdowns etc.