Parents refuse to allow learning robot in class

[Yabbers]

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Kier has an auto immune condition and can’t attend school when he is poorly which is half the time. A fantastic piece of kit, a learning robot, is used in 850 schools around the world, but 11 of 400 parents have refused to allow this into his school in Edinburgh. It is considered to be so secure it would take millions of years to break the encryption and there have been no incidents in all the years it has been used.

AIBU to assume these parents are Mumsnetters who bandy about “Data Protection” and “safeguarding” and because of this non existent risk have stopped this child being a part of his class.

Going along with the majority is called democracy. Yabu to be so angry about other parents expressing their concerns.

I'm a teacher and I'm doing a PhD. My specialist subject is the use of technology in the primary school classroom.

It makes me shake my head when people think that just because someone is DBS checked and a teacher means they can't be a pervert. They exist. They just haven't been caught.

This piece of technology is fantastic for sick children. In my experience, the iPad won't work unless it is connected to the home WiFi. Parents can be DBS checked if necessary (not that it'll make a difference).

Children can be filmed anywhere, at any time, by any one. Swimming pool, shops, street, school. You have no idea who is taking photos of, or filming your child when you're out in public. None.

To deny this child an education because parents are technologically illiterate is appalling.

Is learning this way as effective as a human teacher sitting next to the child? Children with long-term illnesses are eligible for a home tutor.

@goldengummybear

In reality this is hit and miss. DD spent a lot of time in and out of hospital, the big childrens hospital was great and provided 2 hours of schooling a day. My local hospital were rubbish and provided nothing in hospital, and also no tutoring for the two terms she was home on immunosuppressants.

She would have loved a robot like that to keep in touch with her school environment and give her a bit of normality when the rest of her life was centred round illness.

At the same time I see the safety concerns, and would feel very uneasy about allowing a robot film my child.

No easy answers I'm afraid.

I don’t think I would want to have a parent/anyone who can access the iPad watching a full day live stream of a classroom. Would you want your entire working day live streamed?

I can see the benefit of it, but it does infringe on the privacy of everyone in the room.

The other cctv footage in a school can only be accessed by a small amount of school employees who are dbs checked. It’s also only looked at for a reason.

I think the best way would be to focus it on the teacher and perhaps some of the children who's parents don't mind can sign up for stuff like group work if it's fully interactive.

Then that really lowers the concerns around security.

If that genuinely is the case, which I doubt, then make an effort to understand people's real and valid concerns, without dismissing them, then come up with cast-iron solutions. Not 'and and and', or 'what if the TA is a weirdo' but actual concrete solutions.

If you have a look you’ll see plenty of background about DD having a disability. Want to see her medical notes about her hospital stays? Doubt all you like, must be lovely not to have to consider some people actually do have shit like that in their life.

I never mentioned the TA being a weirdo. We don’t have TAs here.

The solutions have been offered. But like whackamole the and...and...and... just keep coming bringing in more ridiculous scenarios which actually are so minuscule in risk/probability terms. Some people will never be satisfied and kids like Keir (and my DD) lose out because of it.

Going along with the majority is called democracy

11 out of 400 is not a majority.

Of course yes, definitely mumsnetters. In fact I must be one of the parents, who objected. The fact that I don’t live in Scotland and have just learned of this tech is a mere technicality.

I like the idea of potentially setting up the camera to only see the teacher. Certain children could easily be obscured in this way. But I still wouldn’t want my child in that situation if there were any specific safeguarding issues such as discussed above.

The other cctv footage in a school can only be accessed by a small amount of school employees who are dbs checked.
And you can guarantee that they never click on a link in a "you've our 1000000th visitor!" email?
I had to help once someone (who, by the way, works closely with vulnerable people and is quite senior) as her laptop "behaved strangely". The amount of malware she had there was just unbelievable, she seems to have downloaded every trojan under the sun. It was her personal device, but something tells me I don't really want to know what her working machine is like.

the school was demolished in December 2018
Um yeah, they opened the new building in August 2018. I assume if you were local to the area you’d know that?

TBF the article you've posted doesn't really address anything beyond the security of the stream itself which does sound great, but it's not the sole issue.

Is it really necessary to get permission from the entire school, wouldn't it be enough to obtain from the parents of the children in the same classes.

As a teacher, I would have refused I think.

Some of my kids would have hated being filmed and would not have put their hand up etc because of it.

I would expect such institutions to have clear guidelines about not downloading uncleared information, the ones I have had contact with certainly do.
I can see the frustrations of the parents of the sick DC but allowing people you don't know to access to hours of live streaming of your DC is actually quite a big ask for a lot of people and for those with additional safeguarding needs a complete nightmare.

Surely a better solution is something like interhigh, which is specifically set up for this sort of provision.

Whether OP acknowledges it or not, there are significant issues which need to be overcome if trying to shoehorn blended learning provision in an environment designed for face to face. And yes, I wouldn't want to be videoed all hours of my working day either. I don't suppose the teacher does either.

YANBU to be disappointed and frustrated at the barriers many young disabled kids face in education and elsewhere.

YABU a bit to assume it must MNers, there are many groups that have concerns about data protection and those who generally are cautious tech.

I don't know enough about what the intended set up was to have an opinion. I know in some of the advertising for it, the robot is shown pretty much being taken with the class everywhere which I guess may be why the entire school would need to be informed. I think it's an interesting invention with a lot of potential, but there does seem to be some issues, practical and social, that may need to be addressed.

I think you'd have had a lot more sympathy, support and a sensible discussion about the pros and cons of this technology if you hadn't come wading in and insulted everybody tbh.

Work devices have a considerable amount of effort put in to protect the security of the network and data against inadvertent clicks. It’s not remotely comparable to a personal device.

I know nothing about this technology but as someone who has worked in schools we had children whose location couldn't be disclosed because they were in care , children who's fathers where abusive and had protection orders and staff who had been in refuges.

Is this not where the issue lies?
No technology is faultless, technology has been hacked.
If I was parent of an at risk child i would definitely want assurances there was no chance of security flaws.

'HeathRobinson

Why not stop it swivelling about and let it just face the teacher? I don't reckon parents would object to that.'

Actually yes , stop it swivelling, point it at the teacher if the teacher is happy, child can see the lesson, child can answer questions.

Children can be sat behind it.
No children can be seen. Problem mostly solved?

I've had kids with special needs who wouldn't have coped with being filmed, kids who wouldn't have put their hands up and spoke and kids who being made to change class would have caused massive distress.

Is it really necessary to get permission from the entire school, wouldn't it be enough to obtain from the parents of the children in the same classes.

I don’t think it is. But in this case it appears parents have made a complaint and the school / LA has pandered to them.

I think you'd have had a lot more sympathy, support
Not looking for either of those.

YA not necessarily BU but it depends on the reasons for the objections. I suppose they must have some sort of basis or the school could have just ignored them.

Have also come across parents who are stumbling blocks to helping kids with disabilities be included and it usually is done on entirely baseless reasoning, often because they perceive my child is gaining some kind of advantage.

I agree with this though.

StopMakingAFoolOutofMe absolutely kids can be filmed out in public but it worries me that you don't understand there might be safeguarding issues with a child in care, a child under a protection order or a child whose parent doesn't and can't know their whereabouts being filmed IN school IN uniform.

As a teacher, I would have concerns about this in my classroom. I would need a lot more information, and I would need to make sure of the impacts in my classroom. I'd also not be happy about being filmed all day, it's very invasive, and you lose a lot of control when the child can swivel and move it around. I'd actually be less concerned with a fixed camera that the teacher could turn on and off during explicit teaching time.

CadetMum - where did I say I wasn't aware of safeguarding issues? I didn't mention it in my comment, that doesn't mean to say I'm not aware of them.

It's quite simple really. The robot is set up so that it films the teacher or groups it needs to and no one else. The children with safeguarding issues don't go in those groups.

Also, to those who mentioned the entire working day, changing for PE etc, you do realise the robot would only be turned on for actual lessons?