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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Grandad's funeral ceremony

110 replies

Blueuggboots · 20/02/2019 08:32

My grandad has recently died.
He was not religious in any way shape or form and never expressed a desire to be so.
Before he died, he said he wanted 2 songs at his funeral which are hymns which we have adhered to.
When we talked to the celebrant yesterday, my mum (DIL of grandad) announces we were having the Lord's Prayer. When I said no to this, she announced that as a professing Christian, she felt it was right to have this. I pointed out that as my Grandad was not a professing Christian that I didn't feel it was remotely appropriate and that a period of quiet reflection would be better....
AIBU?

OP posts:
RiverTam · 20/02/2019 15:49

why? Because you're singing the words rather than saying them? That makes no sense at all.

Gth1234 · 20/02/2019 15:58

I am not strongly religious, but I always find "Abide With Me" very moving and chose that for my mum's funeral. My brother chose a different hymn.

I am sure the service will offer a lot of comfort, especially the eulogy.

Gth1234 · 20/02/2019 16:02

Just a thought. If you are having hymns, then de facto you are having a Christian service, so you should expect the normal committal rituals.

Just treat it as Pascal's wager, if you like. There's no downside, just an upside.

anniehm · 20/02/2019 16:09

If hymns have been explicitly chosen by him I think it's perfectly reasonable to have shortened prayers for the departed followed by the Lord's Prayer as he has indicated he wants a religious service. Just because people don't attend church doesn't mean they aren't religious remember

Alsohuman · 20/02/2019 17:05

Hymns are totally different to prayers I’ve heard it all now.

Birdsgottafly · 20/02/2019 17:11

I think a funeral should bring some comfort to those left behind.

I've been apart 9f one for all GPs, Parents and DH. I let Family members of his include what they felt they needed to.

At my Mum's, my Sister said a very strange poem, but it made her feel better.

ThreeAnkleBiters · 20/02/2019 17:13

I'm not religious but if religious family members wanted a religious funeral I wouldn't care. Unless he was specifically opposed to religion or had a specific plan for his funeral I'd probably let it go.

Birdsgottafly · 20/02/2019 17:13

"I am next of kin.
I am the funeral director's client"

To any decent, Celebrant, Priest, Vicar etc that is meaningless.

Family members are entitled to request things.

Your GD isn't here any more, your Mother is.

ThreeAnkleBiters · 20/02/2019 17:15

Although I definitely agree with PP that hymns are very obviously different from prayers. They both have a common religious route but have diverged over time. Hymn are usually taken to be much less literal than prayers. Lots of people enjoy hymns for the tune where as a prayer is purely religious.

I recently went to a non religious funeral where there were hymns. The lady who died had chosen a selection of music including hymns because it was an important song to her, not because she believed in the words.

DoneLikeAKipper · 20/02/2019 17:18

This is exactly why I will be having a humanist/quiet cremation as a funeral. Or at least would hope my family could keep to my very final wishes as an atheist, show some respect for my beliefs in life. You wouldn’t arrange a religious person’s funeral without prayers, why include them in a service for someone who wasn’t religious, just for someone else’s selfish wants?

Give him the funeral he wanted. Anyone wants to say the Lord’s Prayer, I’m sure they can do so at their own Sunday services. Your grandfather wasn’t religious, it’s not what he wanted, people should respect that.

Just treat it as Pascal's wager, if you like.

‘Pascal’s wager’ is utter bollocks. It’s not a 50/50 chance if they say the Lord’s Prayer it would do some ‘soul saving’.

Gth1234 · 20/02/2019 17:32

How can anyone say a hymn is not religious. Are there any hymns that not paeans to the almighty, or his son? I can't think of any.

MiniEggAddiction · 20/02/2019 17:40

How can anyone say a hymn is not religious. Are there any hymns that not paeans to the almighty, or his son? I can't think of any.

Don't be silly surely you know what people mean. Many non religious people grew up singing and enjoying hymns at school. The fact that the words to those hymns happen to be religious doesn't stop that person enjoying the hymn.In the same way I might enjoy a piece of literature or art that was religiously inspired even though I myself am not religious. The same is not true of prayer which rarely has any other function other than a religious one.

Gth1234 · 20/02/2019 17:47

@mimieggaddiction

"Don't be silly surely you know what people mean. ". I am not sure I did actually, but I can see what you mean.

StoneofDestiny · 20/02/2019 17:48

Funerals are often more about those left behind as the deceased will not know anything about what is said, by whom or why. I'd let it go - hardly worth arguing about

DoneLikeAKipper · 20/02/2019 18:05

Funerals are often more about those left behind as the deceased will not know anything about what is said

Funerals are about showing your final respects, and for celebrating the life of the person as they were. Are people really such twats as to impose their personal beliefs rather than follow the wants of the deceased at their last hooray just because they’re still here? They will have their own funerals one day, and I’m sure they wouldn’t be so happy at the thought of someone messing around with their final plans (even if they won’t have the slightest idea what’s going on).

If you respected that person in life, then respect them in death as the person they were.

Weaverspin · 20/02/2019 18:14

birdsgottafly Actually, it does come down to the person who is the funeral director’s client. If there is a disagreement which can’t be resolved, what they say goes.

As a celebrant myself, when situations like this arise, I try and find solutions, recognising the painful feelings that often come to the fore during such difficult times.

RaffertyFair · 20/02/2019 19:04

Give him the funeral he wanted The whole point of this thread is that he did not specify anything other than 2 hymns DoneLikeAKipper

You are vehement in your desire to have nothing religious and so have told your family that. That's great. (I'm also guessing you are not planning on having hymns as you are an atheist.)

But the OP's DGF did not give his family that directive. All he specified were the 2 hymns. This tends to suggest that he wasn't overly invested in service and trusted those closest to him to make decisions for him. OP is trying to do that and asked for opinions.

And regardless of how "different" people view hymns from prayers, they undoubtedly are religious.

CripsSandwiches · 20/02/2019 19:10

@Gth1234 sorry my reply was a bit rude!

CripsSandwiches · 20/02/2019 19:13

And regardless of how "different" people view hymns from prayers, they undoubtedly are religious.

What do you mean by religious though? How is it relevant? It's very likely he may have been happy to have hymns but not prayers. If he wasn't religious then it obviously wasn't the religious element of the hymn he enjoyed but the tune. Not knowing the man I wouldn't be able to say whether he would object to a prayer during his funeral (I am an atheist and would prefer not to have prayers but wouldn't care too much - it would probably seem very odd to people who knew me though). The point is the fact that he enjoyed hymns does not mean he would be at all happy to have prayers.

Purpleartichoke · 20/02/2019 19:17

It is horribly disrespectful of the deceased. I have attended many funerals that did not match my religion, because they were held in the religion of the person who died.

pallasathena · 20/02/2019 19:23

How about singing The Lord's Prayer then?

RiverTam · 20/02/2019 19:31

No, they are a rite of passage for the bereaved. I feel this very strongly. MIL has recently said she doesn't want a funeral and DH has been incredibly hurt by this. I really don't think its her call. I would have been horrified if I'd been told I couldn't have a funeral for my dad. He died unexpectedly so no-one knew what he wanted so no pressure from 'beyond the grave' to do anything we, those left behind, didn't want to.

RaffertyFair · 20/02/2019 19:36

The point is the fact that he enjoyed hymns does not mean he would be at all happy to have prayers.

My point is that if he would have been actively unhappy to have prayers he would have made that known at the same time he specified the hymns. . He bothered to mention 2 hymns but nothing else. It seems reasonable to think this suggets that he wasn't particularly bothered whether there were prayers or not.

I was responding to the posters who seemed to know that he was anti -prayer. I was merely saying that there is no evidence he was anti anything.

Cheby · 20/02/2019 20:08

This is an easy one to solve. Just ask the celebrant to say something like:

‘...and now there will be time for quiet reflection or personal prayer, while Song A plays. Some family members will be choosing to recite The Lord’s Prayer, and invite you to join them now if you would like to do so’

Done. Those who want to pray can, those who don’t just stay quiet. Everyone happy.

RaffertyFair · 20/02/2019 20:11

That's what the OP did suggest but her dm wants the prayer actually said. That is the issue.

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