Grandad's funeral ceremony

[Blueuggboots]

My grandad has recently died.
He was not religious in any way shape or form and never expressed a desire to be so.
Before he died, he said he wanted 2 songs at his funeral which are hymns which we have adhered to.
When we talked to the celebrant yesterday, my mum (DIL of grandad) announces we were having the Lord's Prayer. When I said no to this, she announced that as a professing Christian, she felt it was right to have this. I pointed out that as my Grandad was not a professing Christian that I didn't feel it was remotely appropriate and that a period of quiet reflection would be better....
AIBU?

If your mother continued to support your grandad, as you mention, she'll also be grieving. Given that you are having two hymns, at your granddad's request, and it would bring her comfort to have it, I think it's both in-keeping with the rest of the service and kind to include it on her behalf.

A funeral is to help the mourners come to terms with a death of someone so if any of those assembled are religious then they might appreciate the opportunity to recite the Lords Prayer.
This isn't about you or your mum specifically but all of the people who are coming to pay their respects to your granddad.
When my non religious mum died, we tried to plan a service that would include support for the mourners including her religious older sister.
I'm sorry for your sad loss OP and I wonder if some of your focus on the religious aspect is a part of you not wanting to acknowledge that he's gone?
In your shoes, I wouldn't get too hung up about the details as that's not what you will want to remember in years to come. Take care OP.

In that case, if it gives your mum comfort I would have it if you can.

You can think about something else, you don't need to join in.

The funeral is for those who loved the deceased. The prayer will bring comfort at a very difficult moment to someone who loved this man for over 50 years. Longer than even you knew him. It would be a very weird thing to deliberately want to remove that comfort from her. Can’t you just find some kindness towards your mother?

I’m atheist BTW. Just incase you think I’m pushing some religious agenda.

I just feel like it's a bit silly - saying a prayer when a large majority of the family don't believe it, including the person in the coffin!!!

Well, it is, really. But if everyone else is atheist/agnostic, and your mum was both close to your grandad and thinks it's important, then I think it's maybe ok to let it go an have the prayer. Maybe she can take to the front and lead it, as her way of contributing to things.

It might make things easier for her, and it sounds like it's not like it's going to especially offend everyone else.

Given how fractious religious stuff can be, this is a relatively "mild" problem to deal with, so choose whichever path won't make it into a bigger one.

I am not in the least religious so for me prayers and religious readings are simply words just like any other poem or story etc..
They hold no intrinsic comfort but they hold no threat either.

If your dm feels comforted by those words and the associations she has with them, what would the harm be?

Just as the songs (hymns) have associations for your Grandad?

Did your Grandad care about your DM? Would he want her to be comforted?

I'd let it go.

My DF's funeral was at church because my DM is a church goer. I remember thinking 'I don't recall my DF being this religious!'

However it was a lovely service and loads of people came who knew him through my DM and said how lovely he was, and whether my DF would have believed the stuff of not wasn't really important.

I don't disagree with you reasoning behimd not wanting it but it might be best to let it happen. I had the Lord's prayer at my Dad's funeral, he wasn't religious & nor am I but my Grandmother (his Mother) is, so I asked for it to be included at the end to keep her happy/save myself earache.

We had a similar problem at my dads funeral last year. We decided that as my dad had been raised religious, though he had drifted away he wouldn't have been offended by it (though I'm sure he might have rolled his eyes) so offered to allow a hymn. However the person pushing for religious elements backed down.

I think if it doesn't offend anyone then no one will bat an eye lid. Many people raised with religion find the familiarity comforting so just let it be- especially if she was close to him.

Funerals are for the living to grieve, the dead dont know a thing about it. Unless your GD wrote his own funeral plan, then his NOK will arrange as they see fit.

You clearly want to stamp your wishes on this and as you are the client and acting NOK you are free to do so.

Could it be an option for people to say the LP quietly during the time of reflection?
The Celebrant could say -" now we are to have a quiet time to remember Grandad, please feel free to pray or to contemplate or meditate in your own way"
Then your mum could say the LP, but other people don't have to join in.

The people closest do have the absolute right to choose how the funeral is held but it is also nice to consider other people's feelings as well.

There is no right or wrong - just a balance between the wishes of the various people involved depending on how close they were to the deceased.

Words are just words

I'm a funeral celebrant. I find that people often ask for the Lord's Prayer even in 'non-religious' funerals, because the traditional words are a comfort to many - even if not believers. If it is included I always invite 'those who wish' to join in saying the LP - so no one feels obliged.

I also, when introducing the time for reflection, suggest people can reflect, remember, and say a private prayer if they wish.

In this instance, whilst I understand that it would feel odd to include it from the point of view of your grandad and yourself, if it gives comfort to your mum, I'd include it.

It would sit oddly if the rest of the service was non-religious, but as there are hymns already, I don't think it would come across out of place.

Hope it all works out ok.

It is ultimately your choice. I slammed the phone down on my dad when we were discussing my mum's funeral arrangements (they'd been separated for many years, my dad has a partner, before anyone thinks I was going off on a grieving widower!) and I found it can bring a whole host of other feelings to the top.

We just did quiet reflection at my mum's funeral. It was a really small funeral (just 5 of us) and I found the total silence almost...painful? I think if your grandfather wasn't opposed to hymns the Lord's Prayer isn't that greater a leap. Like PP have suggested, if you are o.k. with your mum saying the LP perhaps that could work?

I agree with Weaverspin. Quite often the LP is one of the few prayers that everyone knows and recognises.
If your mum was close to your GP, and there are few of you at the service. When we had my dad's funeral every close member of the family contributed a share of the service in a way that was meaningful to them. Cant the LP be your DM's share?
And you are lucky that she has chosen something so brief and innocuous.. We had quite a battle with my brother wanting Frank Sinatras "My Way", played at the service for someone who had never ever owned a record player or ever expressed any interest in the song.
What harm could it do, and how much comfort could it be to just say yes to your mum over this small point.

How important is it to respect the wishes of the deceased as opposed to allowing for the preferences of the bereaved? What would your Grandad say? Tricky.

Those who want to can pray during the quiet time of reflection - or will someone start a loud 'everybody join in now' Lord's Prayer?

Sorry for your loss, OP

From what you've said your mum sounds closer to your grandad than your dad was (if he is abroad) and it also sounds like you have a difficult relationship with your mother. It does come across a little as you having a go at your mother - hymns are OK but prayers are not.

I hope you can resolve it soon, it is a very stressful time.

If your only objection is it’s a bit silly let it go. Your grandad must have had some respect for religion if he chose hymns.

I take it the funeral is not taking place in a church?

I did my dissertation on funerals so i spent. a year thinking about this. I went into it with clear views on what I wanted, ended it thinking I'm not bothered what happens as long as they don't spend much money. What changed my opinion was the fact that the funeral was for those left behind, the service needs to do that. As his DIL was close to you grandad I'd let it go, it will give her comfort and its such a well-known prayer many people will find the familiarity a comfort.

It's in a crematorium.
He wanted the hymns because his friend had them at his funeral.
Yes, I do have a difficult relationship with my mum - she lived with us for 7 months last year after she left my dad. It did not help the relationship.

In that case, the celebrant is wrong and should not be imposing her views here.

As PP have stated though, this is not a hill I’d die on.

The celebrant suggested a period of quiet reflection after I said no to the LP.
I don't think they are imposing their views!

It’s very standard to include the lords prayer in a funeral ceremony even if the deceased wasn’t religious. If your grandad was fine with hymns, I can imagine he would object to something so commonly recited at a funeral. It’s something I’d expect at mine for example. This doesn’t mean your mum gets to make this into a big religious thing either.

Are you going to say anything? Is she?