To ask what happened to having traditional values?

[mozzarellasticks]

I'm 23 and from a very young age I was told that it was 'right' to live life in a 'traditional' order.
For example: being in a relationship with someone, buying a house, getting married, and then having kids.
Not trying to be smug or on a high horse, just wondering what happened and why people are getting pregnant after knowing someone for 5 minutes. I'm generally considered to be have old fashioned views but want to know why no one else feels the same way

Why are traditional values any better than more modern values op?.genuine question...are married people better?

The protections from marriage are better. I don't judge unmarried couples as immoral at all but I cringe when I hear them talk about "common law marriage"

@butteryellow All of those can be contested by the government/families after a death. As others have said on this thread, people assume they have rights in defacto relationships. They do not. Another example is pension plans, you cannot access it if you aren't married to your deceased parter. In some areas you aren't able to be added as partner on a death certificate. There is also medical legal Power of Attorney - if you are not married to the person, you can be barred from seeing them in hospital or even be notified of death or arrange funeral.

Just stop and think why gay men and women have fought so hard for so many years to be MARRIED. Not a 'civil union', but to be legally married. Us heteros take marriage and it's commitments and legal protections for granted; you don't know how much it means until the option of marriage is not one afforded to you. During the recent marriage debate in Australia, and in Ireland, facts were brought up that partners were blocked by homophobic families who had been NC with their gay son/daughter, from liaising health care or organising funerals or even BEING present at funerals. One lesbian from the UK stated she was not even able to be recognised as partner on her late partner's death certificate. Another woman stated she knew a lesbian couple who because of their status were not allowed to be in the room of her partner who was dying of cancer and having different treatment, and said woman had to stand outside the hallway, and hear her partner crying in pain. And she couldn't even be there with her.

I think a lot of people on here, especially heteros, take marriage for granted and have absolutely NO IDEA the actual protections it offers. It is almost laughing in the face of LGB community, in my opinion. They were until recently (and on many other countries the battle still goes on) fighting like crazy for that 'piece of paper' you all take for granted.

If it were just a piece of paper and had no meaning and no protections, why the hell have the LGBT community had to fight so bloody hard, for what you all take for granted?

Just think about that.

I'm not sure what the OP means, I'm 31 and I see people getting married all the time around me so traditional ways of doing things (marriage) seem to be alive and well as far as I can see. Didn't at 23 though....probably if she waits a few years she'll be invited to a few weddings so can then breathe a sigh of relief after all the sinning that's gone on previously

Plenty of people judge couples that aren't married as by definition less committed or less serious. Being married gives you legal rights and tax breaks by default, of course. But it says nothing about how committed you are to your relationship. As shown by the divorce rates, and the number of people that cheat on their spouse.

Perfectly possible to be fully committed to each other without being married.

Just worry about yourself

Met OH at 22, house together (lost/sold one,bought another) had baby at 26(does that count as 5 minutes?)
Still together 11 years on and not fussed about marriage.
If he were to kick us out tomorrow? I've got a wage as shitty as it is and enough savings to rent somewhere straight away and worry about benefits later. If he were to be a real asshole, I have access to all his bank accounts, business and personal and credit cards, but I doubt it will ever come to that given the way he behaved with his exes.
Childcare and work and everything would carry on just like it is now.
Worst case scenario I could go and live with my mum,if there really was no other choice.
Many might disagree,or want to be married first or dislike being as what they see as vulnerable. That's ok.

What I don't get is why my child is considered to be growing up in a "not stable" environment or what's chaotic about our lives.

I do agree that people should know each other very well before having kids though, it always amazes me the amount of couples who don't discuss big issues/values beforehand. But it's not it's exactly foolproof, it could still all go wrong.

no inheritance money from her passing

Well most of us aren't that lucky.

Careful @mozzarellasticks , life has a way of bringing smug little brats back down to Earth.....

Would 'traditional' values not be to get married then live together and then have a family?
I know in my grandparents case dating or courtship was generally much shorter than nowadays, so despite being married both of my grandparents had known each other a shorter time than myself and Dp when they had their first child compared to when we had Ds.
We bought our house but didn't live together before buying which some friends thought silly. One of our couple friends are marrying this year but live in a rented house, another are in the process of buying but no plans to marry.

AryaStarkWolf

I do think it's madness to have a child with someone who you barely know

I would think, for the majority of times this happens, it's an accident

I imagine she meant 'go through with the pregnancy' not 'get pregnant'

@mozzarellasticks I did the same as you. Got engaged, bought a house, got married then had children. My mum wasnt happy as she wanted us to get married before we cohabited. But there was no way I wasn't test driving the relationship first! I think we were very lucky that everything turned out well for us, so far. I realise that anything could have happened to alter that e.g. an unplanned baby, possible break up, moving back to mums with children etc. Mind you, no-one can predict the future so a break up and living back at the parents could still happen for me!

Ah shit. No one at the hospital told me I had to married with a house before I had DS! I mean he's 2 now so what shall I do with him? Take him back?

Those who agree with traditional values I assume you also place yourself below your husband? He is control of your finances after all, would hate for your feminine brains to have to deal with money and maths. How's your DDs needle point coming along?

In fact, fuck it. Let's all go back to living in an age when women and children meant fuck all. Back to the cotton mill with the lot of us

I got married before having a baby. Not because it's traditional but because it was right for us. I've also taken his name on marriage- again right for us. Then we had DS. So far so good...

But... we don't own a house, probably never will, at points in our relationship I've earnt double my DH (fortunately not now.. tradition and all) and 3 days a week DH has dinner on the table for me when I walk through the door after work.

I can clearly see, that I have gone wrong, against tradition and must instantly remedy this. I shall send my beloved DS off to a proper home, quit my job and make wholesome meals for my hard working DH whilst I apply my lipstick.

@pinkgloves not really sure what you're trying to get at. We didn't get any inheritance money. We've had a really tough year dealing with her passing and have desperately since tried to make a life for ourselves before bringing any children into the world which she sadly will not meet. But thanks for your words - I'm just a smug brat

OP I know what you are getting at. I know quite a lot of younger people who didnt have children until they were married although all of them lived together before they were married. So you're not the only person who thinks the way you do.

MIL is in her 70s, a very conservative (& Conservative) person.
She was victim of DV from first husband.
She said it's marvelous that people live together first nowadays, before marriage. "Give you a chance to find out what the other person is really like!" she declared.

It used to be traditional that women didn’t have the vote, they stayed home looking after their husband and children, they didn’t have the same opportunities through education as men did - times and traditions change and evolve. As long as people are happy with their life choices and it doesn’t impact anyone else , don’t see what the problem is.

Things change though don't they? At one time, it was very frowned upon to have children outside of marriage - now it's much more common and I'm sure many couples who are not married but have children provide perfectly stable homes.

I did get married before I had DS although I did live with DH for a couple of years first. I personally wouldn't have wanted to have children without being married but that's a personal choice.

That said, I was 25 when I got married, having been through uni and started a career. My mum (who is now 57) started work at 16 and married my dad when she was just 18 which to me seems so young but they are still married and together almost 39 years later! So, that wasn't wrong either

But thanks for your words - I'm just a smug brat

Well you are coming across as one. Who makes a post gloating that they have traditional values for absolutely no apparent reason? Is your life altered by this thread? Doubtful. So you've posted to basically bitch about people who have done things differently to you and claiming that you are proper and pure by doing things the "traditional way". If you had any idea what the traditional way actually includes, you wouldn't be wishing it was the norm or proud that you are sticking to it purely because you've been told to. After all, it was traditional for men to lead a household. This included being able to have sex with their wives whenever they wanted, whether their wives wanted this or not. This included having complete financial control over their family. Children being seen and not heard, and beaten black and blue.

Oh here we go Hyacinth Bucket is in the house.

Hmm, I've just been researching my family tree. My gt-grandparents weren't married but they had a child...

from a very young age I was told that it was 'right' to live life in a 'traditional' order

i dont really want that for my dc. - and fortunately i didnt get that from my very open minded parents.

if i had a philosophy id say it was more: question everything.

I won't be raising my Ds to do something based on tradition. What even is tradition, what era do we class as default in tradition?

I'll be raising Ds and any future Dc to do what feels right to them and at a time that feels right. Hopefully things will go to plan for them but maybe they won't and we'll be there to support them in the best way we can if that's the case.
If I have a daughter I will actively encourage her to never be fully reliant on a man though.