AIBU to think that if our elected representatives can’t decide, the people should have the final say?

[borntobequiet]

After all, that’s partially why we had the Referendum in the first place. At that point, relatively few people had feelings one way or the other about the EU. But we were asked. Now that there’s evidently no consensus in Parliament as to how we should leave the EU, shouldn’t it go back to the people again?
www.peoples-vote.uk/march

Msg to MNHQ: please do NOT move this to the Brexit topic. Not only is it very important, the OP is NBU to ask the question

There is already a thread there. OP has deliberetly left BREXIT out of the title so those who want to avoid it can't.

OP YABU for not actually mentioning Brexit in the title

OP has deliberetly left BREXIT out of the title so those who want to avoid it can't.
Nobody will be able to avoid Brexit, whether they 'want to' or not. It is the biggest constitutional issue for decades. If you think you can 'avoid' it, I think you're in for a shock!

It isnt exactly a heavily disguised thread!

We had our say. MPs need to remember that and work towards it, stop the childish infighting and act like the adults the6 should be. Otherwise we are out with no deal

I truely believe there needs to be another vote. People did not know the full consequences of a ‘No’ vote. A lot of people were ignorant about the consequences of leaving the EU.
If the result is another ‘No’, then so be it, people will at least know fully the consequences of leaving. The big seller for the previous referendum was the NHS bullsh*t!

Mostly, it's about avoiding no deal, which would be utterly crazy if allowed to happen. I cannot believe it's even being considered. MPs must save the UK and avoid it!

If there where to be another referrendum what would the question be? Another binary choice of leave/remain or in depth choice such as:
leave with the withdrawal agreement that was so soundly rejected by parliament/remain (bearing in mind those same MP's would have to implement the deal they so soundly rejected if leave won)
Leave with no deal/remain, again needed to be implemented by MP's who have absolutely no desire to implement a no deal scenario.

Or a more nuanced version with more than two options on the ballot paper, no deal/deal/remain. This would be translated by the leave side as rigging the vote by splitting the leave voters.

Or a leave deal agreed within parliament/remain. In this case there is no need as a deal is agreed.

It was hardly a unifying experience the first time so what makes anyone think it will be any more unifying a second time. If remain won what would those who voted leave think?
One of the reasons leave voters gave is that the "Establishment" wasn't listening to or cared about their plight. The fact that their problems were nothing to do with the EU was irrelevant, it was a chance to give them a bloody nose. Reversing the result will merely confirm that the "Establishment" doesn't care about them.
The whole thinking behind another referendum is flawed and is touted almost exclusively by remain voters, giving all kind of reasons for it whilst leaving out their real motivation for wanting one, to reverse the result. Something the leave campain would no doubt make everyone aware of.

I voted remain and was disappointed with the result but have accepted it. Leave won and that's democracy. More importantly to me is this, be very careful what you wish for. With a full campain and a slogain that writes itself "Tell them again" I am actually fearful that leave would not only win again it would do so with a bigger majority. Frankly that scares me.

I don't personally think that no deal should be on the ballot, because I think it is fundamentally wrong to ask people to vote to breach an international treaty.

But if it is, and if a majority of people vote for it, then at least it can be considered that "the people" have given informed consent for what comes next.

It is very noticeable that the posters who argue against a PV ignore the fact that that 2.5 years after the first one, we are at stalemate. Why do you think that is?

One of the reasons leave voters gave is that the "Establishment" wasn't listening to or cared about their plight. The fact that their problems were nothing to do with the EU was irrelevant, it was a chance to give them a bloody nose.

• so let's get this straight... we should proceed to leave the EU because people voted to leave it for 'irrelevant' reasons... That makes sense.

YANBU -there’s just no consensus either in Parliament, or the country.

I tell my kids if they really can’t decide something ( eg which GCSE to do) assume in their head they’ve decided one way for a time period say one day or so - then decide the other way for a day or so. Then evaluate which day felt best.

We've had two years of deciding one way - the resulting economic turbulence, fallen pound and fallen world ranking, lost businesses and undefined lack of future trading relationships isn’t feeling good to me.

Other decisions where the DC aren't sure (eg quitting a sport or quitting learning a musical instrument) is that if they're undecided it's sometimes ok to postpone the decision, especially if it doesn't feel right. You can put things into the too hard for now box.

---

Anyway YANBU. The shift to no deal (and the dominating agitating maverick faction within the Tory party ) have been very very U.

They weren’t consistent on whether Brexit meant leaving the customs union or single market. The no deal option was hardly mentioned before the ref. For example:

•"To repeat, absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market". Daniel Hannan

• “Increasingly the Norway option looks the best for the UK” (Arron Banks -Leave.EU)

• Only a madman would actually leave the Single Market
Owen Paterson (Vote Leave)

So YANBU - but the Jacob Rees Mogg lot are VVVV U.

Yanbu

www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-47270935

Thousands have marched for Remain with no trouble whatsoever.
However, these Tommy Robinson supporters apparently can't manage this simple action without attacking Emergency workers and causing trouble.
I hope the courts throw the book at them

Op, YANBU. I don't want these lowlifes dictating to the rest of us. Why should they be listened to and the vast majority of peaceful, law-abiding people ignored?

The crowdfunder has now raised over £140000 since yesterday morning, target is £200000. Pleased to say that includes what I can afford from me.
Lots of ordinary people putting their money where their mouth is! No nasty big tech firms or foreign governments involved as per this report, just published:
www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/digital-culture-media-and-sport-committee/news/fake-news-report-published-17-19/
Summary
Calls for:
Compulsory Code of Ethics for tech companies overseen by independent regulator
Regulator given powers to launch legal action against companies breaching code
Government to reform current electoral communications laws and rules on overseas involvement in UK elections
Social media companies obliged to take down known sources of harmful content, including proven sources of disinformation
Further finds that:
Electoral law ‘not fit for purpose’
Facebook intentionally and knowingly violated both data privacy and anti-competition laws
Also:
The Government should also launch an independent investigation into past elections, including the UK 2017 general election, the UK 2016 referendum and the Scottish referendum of 2014, with regard to foreign influence, disinformation, funding, voter manipulation and the sharing of data to enable appropriate changes to the law to be made.

OP - if our electoral system is so shafted surely we can't have another referendum until it's all been fixed?

Otherwise Facebastard and all the other evil people will just do what they do again?

One would hope that the Electoral Commission would be far more vigilant and that blatant lies and misinformation would be greatly reduced. Facebook says it's willing to accept regulation. Plus people are more aware of the issues - you can't stop all bad behaviour but you can curtail it.
Abandoning the democratic process because of this sort of wrongdoing would unfortunately just hand a victory to the perpetrators!

TM isn't capable of leading her own party, let alone a government & a country. If she was in charge of a company with 650 employees buying itself out from a larger company & after 2 years hadn't managed an acceptable deal by now she would have had to hand back her company car & her key to the executive washroom, been given her P45, paid off & sacked. I wasn't in favour of a second referendum, but after 2 years of TM's "negotiations" think it is time that it was turned back to the vote & let the country decide what is the best way forward, either by a second referendum or a General Election or both.

I agree.

People didn't know what they were voting for, mainly because we were fed a pack.of lies.

Not more of this rubbish, We had the vote, Leave won. The end. Oh and from the amount of research I did I knew exactly why I voted Leave but thanks for insinuating we are all non-thinking thickos.

YANBU, but it is not going to happen. Better to concentrate on damage limitation (any form of Brexit is economic self-harm).

I think marching would reduce the chance of a no deal, Forall, by demonstrating the strength of feeling against it. The Withdrawal Agreement is in itself economically harmful (even the Government itself says so), but much less so, and if we must leave I'd accept that as the least worst option.

One would hope that the Electoral Commission would be far more vigilant and that blatant lies and misinformation would be greatly reduced. Facebook says it's willing to accept regulation.

But you posted a whole load of stuff saying the system is effectively broken. Facebook may say they will accept regulation but we haven't got any to give them.

Are you suggesting we re-run the 2016 referendum? How would we not be subject to the same things?
As for "lies" - many of the things (on both sides) characterised as "lies" are in fact "opinions I disagree with".

So Silvery perhaps you’d like to enlighten us with what plan for leaving you voted for. Then perhaps you could get your other leaver friends to agree on their plans, bang their heads together and tell them to sort it pronto.

No?

Another referendum then please. One not based on lies and zero planning.

A lot of regulation and safeguards didn't apply to the EU Referendum because IT WAS ONLY ADVISORY. If it had been binding, it would have been framed, run and scrutinised differently. And, given the irregularities unearthed, probably voided.

The ERG really saw Cameron coming.

And yes I would like a Final General Vote - with proper legal safeguards and scrutiny in place. With the 'digital gangsters' properly scrutinised and illegal money transfers acted upon rigorously. Done honestly.

Pleased to see the fundraising is now over 85% of the target. I personally know three people who intend to march having not wanted to before...interesting times in politics at the moment with a split in Labour and who knows what in the Conservatives...ifI were involved in the motor industry or its supply chain I’d be really worried right now.