To be annoyed at The Guardian largely because it is such a dump solution - private schools

[Dlwch276]

So as part of their recent excessive coverage of a book which attacked the private school system (written by someone who went to private school) The Guardian has suggested adding VAT to school fees.

Asides raising more money via tax i don't see how this would make the system fairer? From what I've seen the logic is that parents who are motivated to pay £20k+ on fees would force state schools to improve if their children attended them. Mumsnet is full of posters at their wits ends trying to affect change at their local state schools. No-one that I've met at our small private is wringing their hands that the local state schools are terrible and that this gives their children extra advantage.

Surely to improve educational equality either we all need to pay more tax to change class sizes or poorer students need better access to private education. In NZ private schools receive the same student allowance as state schools - wouldn't this be a better solution for students not able to access private education? For everyone to sit the entrance exam and then private schools to have to accept the student allowance as fees for those who can't afford it?

Faith schools don’t damage social mobility.

Faith schools don’t damage social mobility

If a school wants to be selective, great. It should be fully self-funded though, not taking state funding and applying criteria to admissions.

@Onlyjoinedforthisthread exactly. I'm so fed up of private school bashing. Imagine if there were no private schools, the whole state education wouldn't be able to cope with that many students and would collapse.

“Faith schools don’t damage social mobility.”

They do,actually. Oversubscribed faith schools have significantly lower levels of PP children than others in the same catchment.

“I'm so fed up of private school bashing.”
I don’t think anyone is bashing. They are just saying that they should not be entitled to charitable status or should pay VAT.

The education system in this country is bonkers. we have areas with grammar schools, areas without, we have academy chains, we have church schools, we have local authority schools, we have private schools that use a charity structure and private schools that use a business structure. For most children there is no 'choice' over where they go and their school experience can be radically different at secondary level.
I'm intrigued if any other country has such a mess of a system.

Going to a faith school won’t increase your chance of getting an Oxbridge place or top job.

I don’t like faith schools but I don’t think you can equate them with private schools.

I don’t like faith schools but I don’t think you can equate them with private schools

I didn’t equate them, but I think the education system needs a radical overhaul. Creating a level playing field in the state system would be a start.

Is that not a completely diff thread to private schools getting a VAT exemption?

Is that not a completely diff thread to private schools getting a VAT exemption?

I rather think an overhaul of the education system in general is relevant, especially when you get people who end up in the private system because of the failings of the state.

State education is being stripped to bits, don't see why private education should be exempt. We're all in this sinking boat together. Or maybe we should abolish state education, direct the funds to private schools but make them take on any child within the catchment area. Without fees of course.

“I don’t like faith schools but I don’t think you can equate them with private schools.”

No. I actually think faith schools are “worse”. Private schools are, despite the convoluted arguments of some posters, simply about money. If you’ve got money you can go private. If you haven’t, you can’t. Faith schools, with their backdoor selection and their positive invitation to hypocrisy are in a different category. The fact that people who have, or pretend to have faith have a choice of 30% more tax payer funded schools is just scandalous.

But they don’t have an impact on social mobility. 20 years down the line nobody will give a shit if you went to your local Catholic school. Diff story as regards private schools. Also as unpalatable as they are as regards social cohesion and faith at least anybody who is prepared to lie can access them. Very very few can afford fees that are as much as a salary.

And Jaqyes very very few can bail out into the private system when state doesn’t work out. The maj have to get on with it and do. The wealthy don’t, lucky them. The vast maj of private ed consumers aren’t doing so because they tried the state system and didn’t like it. Most wont have ever stepped foot in a state school.

Most wont have ever stepped foot in a state school

We wanted to. Didn’t work out (in part due to schools selective on faith grounds).

And yes, we were lucky to be able to afford it. If we hadn’t I’d have home schooled.

“20 years down the line nobody will give a shit if you went to your local Catholic school. Diff story as regards private schools”
Well, different story for some private schools. Eton, yes. The Purple Socks School in Croydon, not so much.

Abolishing private schools will make the housing crisis worse as private schools don't have catchments and parents who could previously afford fees would be able to outplay poorer people for houses in the catchments of the best state schools.

Private schools aren't all the same. Some are catering to SN students who definitely aren't catered in the state sector and others are businesses taking money from anyone who can pay.

Abolishing private schools will make the housing crisis worse as private schools don't have catchments and parents who could previously afford fees would be able to outplay poorer people for houses in the catchments of the best state schools

Not buying this. I'm betting the thirst not to rub shoulders with the plebs would have them digging deep. As in Australia.

I'll take that back.

Who has proposed abolishing private schools. All that has been propose is that they come, er truly private,

Echt - doesn’t it already exist? higher house prices in locations of good schools? Quite plausible that it might get worse. The sensitivity of parents to cost Of fees is up for question. I do know of a private school that has closed in the area for financial reasons.

“higher house prices in locations of good schools?“

I’d love to see some proper research into how big a problem this actually is.
But anyway, In My Glorious Reign, school admissions will be by a combination of fair banding and lottery, so that won’t be an issue.

The benefits of tiny classes,other reasons for paying and confidence bought by M&d paying your teachers’ wages are the same for every private school and have an impact for years to come.

Re house prices. Yeah it’ll really have an impact on Joe Blogs when wdalthy families are forced to hoover up the £400k+houses. Like that doesn’t already happen. A few more won’t stop those already excluded from that bracket spending such sums on property.

Nordicstar - even if your estimate that only a few people will stop attending private, the state system already has a poor ratio of teachers to students. I’m guessing the ex-private kids will push out poorer kids from outstanding/good schools which tend to be oversubscribed due to parents buying more expensive place or tuition for grammar schools. May result in everyone ‘shuffling down’.