An argument against a hunter?

[alotofquestionsallthetime]

My BIL (SIL DH) is a hunter. He spends THOUSANDS going to Scottish Isles, Norway, etc. to hunt animals. He pays people to track the deer (literally no idea what this means) and then he shoots it. I find it really sadistic.

Now, we are all meat eaters (except PIL as of recent) and I understand there's a bit of hypocrisy here. So I just would like to debate the topic.

From my perspective, shooting an animal for fun when the meat is readily available in a butcher/supermarket is WEIRD. You get joy/achievement/accomplishment out of hurting an animal? I would entirely understand if you needed it to survive or if the meat wasn't as available (i.e. people living in the middle of nowhere) but he does it purely for fun. He has said this.

Thing is, if I had to kill my own meat I probably wouldn't eat it. I could still eat fish, I don't feel much emotion towards a salmon (is that bad?) but I would struggle killing any animal. I think people who do it for a livelihood have to condition themselves and it is a necessary job that someone has to do. That is entirely different.

So what is your opinion on someone who kills animals such as deer/goat/other wildlife depending on country purely for fun?
(FWIW, he does eat the meat)

I don't eat animals, I personally dont see a difference between hunting for fun and factory farmed animals being killed when there are so many alternatives, it's not necessary on either part. People who live in the likes of wild aladka and such and genuinely hunt for food and survival, although I don't like it, I understand they probably need to.

I don't believe any form of extremist diet is the answer. Veganism has a whole other host of environmental impact which is a whole other thread/argument. But it is not the answer to saving the planet I can give a guarantee on that. The world needs a level of balance to keep it on an even keel. the planet is over populated and as humans we are doing a hell of a lot to jeoporadise it. Funnily ebough to the PP I know 4 ex vegans who all reverted back to a "normal" for want of a better word diet/lifestyle but in a more CONSCIOUS way. Two because like your friend they were wholly alarmed when they learned the actual truth - not the netflix truth and two for health reasons - one ended up in hospital so deficient (though I don't think that can be blamed on being vegan just that he wasn't careful to ensure he met all his natural requirements in his vegan diet)

Being more aware of where our food comes from, making conscious choices in relation to welfare, airmiles, packaging, production, how it is supporting your own economy is, in my opinion, far more valuable that "I am vegan to save the planet and therefore am holier than thou" (aware this is a minority that spout this but some do) Unfortuntaley I have had conversations with folk about famring who have admitted to never setting foot on a farm (one had never even seen a cow in the flesh!!!) but unfortunately had enough time on their hands to sit and watch netflix/youtube/peta videos which are sensationalised, inaccurate and have an agenda.

I totally get folk not wanting to eat animals regardless of their quality of life because they do not believe in animals being killed. And that is absolutely fine. But what is not fine is spreading utter lies that you are misinformed about.

FWIW I say make balanced and informed decisions - buy local, check welfare and traceability (yes that comes with a higher pricetag) be conscious of packaging, waste, reusing etc etc. I do not eat meat (I do eat fish) but I do buy and cook it for others. I always buy local reared free range - I see the snimals free ranging and in most cases living more natural and species appropriate lives than many domestic dogs! I keep chickens and use my own eggs (and to the PP who says chickens should be better protected from the fox - I recently caught the fox at the neighbours chicken coo. Every bird killed, not one removed. Walked back twice in the daylight to see how it got in. Absolutely no signs. no holes, no dig marks. you cannot underestimate these beings.)

Thats my thoughts of the day.

Whatever the reason behind it, for food, for environmental reasons, population control, whatever, it is deeply disturbing to enjoy it.

I appreciate that it often has to be done but I always think killing any animal should be done with a heavy heart. They are living breathing things who can feel pain and want to live.

Your BIL is a wrong un.

Hi I'm back.

So this post is going down a vegan/environmental impact route which is completely not where I am going with it.

To summarise, point of post is: Is he a dickhead from finding it fun to kill the animal regardless of if he eats it or not?

@iSiTbEdTiMeYeT1 no, he isn't asking me to go. He brings it up all the time and I'm BORED of it. He's a prick in his own right, he never asks how I am, doesn't care about me and DP's jobs, always talks about himself. They like to think they're better off than they are and like to show this over social media a lot. So it's always in my face. He announced getting a job with him sat in front of the dead deer holding it in some foreign country (was in Europe, can't remember).

@Chakira so the places he spends thousands to get to include some remote place that is near Scotland but further north, you can only get to it by private plane I think (just going by what he's told me) and it doesn't have much population as far as I'm aware.

He uses dogs to chase, I think they did this is Yorkshire for the Boxing Day Hunt.

Then I know he's been to Norway and Zimbabwe for it.

@alotofquestionsallthetime

I did post further up, but the gist of my post is yes he's a dick and also a bit sick.

Ok you hate your brother in law, we get it

Just tell him not to talk about it in front of you as it upsets you. It's not difficult.

I think they did this is Yorkshire for the Boxing Day Hunt. You think

Yep, we can see how far you will go to hate your BIL!

So he's a dick! Many people are!

Basically your bitter he doesn't pay attention to you. Nothing to do with hunting at all. Change the subject, refuse to talk to him walk away. Be an adult and stop being butt hurt.

To summarise, point of post is: Is he a dickhead from finding it fun to kill the animal regardless of if he eats it or not?

You don't have to like it, but it is human nature to enjoy killing animals. Thousands of years of evolution rewarding mankind with survival makes it so. A few hundred years of it becoming less socially acceptable in our culture doesn't over rule that. It just makes it a shadow for many people.

He's not unreasonable for it; and you're perfectly entitled to not like it.

You don't have to like it, but it is human nature to enjoy killing animals

Not this human, much as I like a steak. It's a stretch from not having a problem with killing an animal to call it "enjoying" it.

Not this human either, and perhaps I worded it badly. Do you see the point I was trying to make, though? Evolution surely favoured people who were good at killing animals. That suggests to me that natural selection rewarded those who found it a rewarding task, not just because they ate the meat but as an activity in its own right - because a) instant reward works better to shape behaviour than delayed, and b) feeding and providing for family wouldn't be rewarding if the reward was just eating the meat yourself.

Not this human either, and perhaps I worded it badly. Do you see the point I was trying to make, though? Evolution surely favoured people who were good at killing animals

I'd suggest that human evolution actually went the other way, and allowed individuals that weren't good hunters (but perhaps who mated with good hunters ...) to survive and pass on their genes.

I guess there's a possibility that some individuals had an endorphin rush after killing their dinner - maybe that's where it comes from ? But the fact there are enough humans around today to find it distasteful to say the least hints at it being a minority.

I am vegetarian and don't really believe in killing any living creature so I don't agree with hunting at all.

I find it sick really that someone would get a thrill from killing a beautiful animal. There may be some lovely caring hunters but I doubt there are. I certainly could never be friends with anyone who thought hunting was fun

I pity people who hunt for fun. And am also a bit wary of them.

I am veggie (rest of family not) and while I have absolutely nothing whatsoever against hunting for food, particularly in species that need population control, I detest hunting for fun.

I have absolutely nothing whatsoever against hunting for food, particularly in species that need population control, I detest hunting for fun.

Although you do end up in a sort of logical quandary whereby people who enjoy the job of culling shouldn't be "allowed" to do it, while people who don't must ?

@CuriousaboutSamphire no, I know he went on the Boxing Day Hunt, I know it was up North, the SIL mentioned Yorkshire. It's a phraseology. I'm not pretending he went on the hunt for fun.

And no I don't like him and this is one of the main reasons. But I am actually a lot more forgiving of him than every single one of OH's family (apart from his DW obviously).

MIL hates him because of the hunting. I don't really understand it. I just find it twisted.

When a child starts killing animals they say it's a sign of psychopathic tendencies. Why is it any different as an adult when you pay to do it but not to help the environment or out of necessity and not even to fucking eat it?

@iSiTbEdTiMeYeT1 Nope not bitter, luckily don't really crave attention and we tend to avoid seeing his family as much as possible.

He's just a twat.

Everyone I know that hunts is also very into every other aspect of country living. Conservation, protection and appreciation of the natural environment.
In contrast to my friends that object to hunting, or are veggie /vegan have very little to do with the countryside aside from owning dogs they walk or going for a run in it.

Actually, he is not a hunter. He pays someone else to do the hunting. He is a killer. I eat meat too, but this hobby of his is just gross.

And of course people that enjoy hurting animals are generally disturbed. I don’t know any one that hunts that thinks hurting any creature is ok. They have respect for animals and the environment they live in.
. Unlike twats that toss their litter out of cars or hit peasants on the road because they drive too fast or couldn’t tell the different between one species of duck/ bird/ deer and another. People that hunt tend to understandanimals and nature much more than those who just think the countryside is something that wild animals live in some sort of special non human environment.

I do find the notion of hunting for entertainment to be gross and, for me, it does suggest sadism.

But, objectively, it's still far less of an evil than buying supermarket meat or dairy, so I agree you don't really have a leg to stand on.

I used to be very anti-hunting. Rabid vegetation type.

Ive spent a lot of time recently with First Nations people in Canada and I see it differently. To them its about connecting with the land, their culture, being self-sufficient, not being dependent on white people. They use every bit of the animal (they eat bears!) and respect and celebrate the animals they kill.

They also try to emulate the animals they hunt. The bear is wise, strong and human-like. The salmon is a powerful symbol of renewal and the beaver is creative and determined.

If he likes to hurt and kill, that is one thing. If he enjoys the outdoors, the skill, the animals themselves, that is another. I wouldnt do it but I dont think it`s the same level of psychopathy as the first.

tbh, when people write "I am vegetarian" as obviously relevant to how they feel about hunting... it makes me super glad I stopped being vegetarian. I hated people thinking that being vegetarian = animal rights extremist. So many people made that assumption. It horrified me.

DH (cooks our evening meal) is going thru a phase of trying meat substitutes. Env reasons which is why I was vegetarian before. Made me wonder if I wanted to drop meat more widely in my diet. But I'm prone to anemia if I don't have heme iron & I don't want anyone ever thinking for a moment I'm an animal rights extremist. Thread has been good for me to clarify the identity I want to shun.

Subsistence hunting - ok.
Hobby, sport, trophy - I wouldn't even speak to them or even be in the same room. Same as sex offenders or terrorists in my book.