Skint Britain: Friends without Benefits on C4

[amrscot]

Is anybody else watching this?

One of the couples take their dog out to hunt rabbits and squirrels that they can eat.

They've just shown him with a dead rabbit he has caught skinning it in the kitchen

Horrendous..

But before you even get to the point of would you or your children be better off moving for work you've got to get to that point.
Even with experience/qualifications if your income isn't enough to sustain you how on earth are you going to afford multiple trips down south to go to interviews, view somewhere to live and then come up with bond and first month's rent? Most of that would be beyond many people on UC. Not great but a reality.

I get universal credit as well as working 20 hours. Rarely receive maintenance and if I wasn't in a very unfortunate position of owning my home outright I'd be stuffed if I had rent or mortgage to cover.

I work fulltime and I will be entitled to UC once I'm switched over. It's criminal that someone can work fulltime 1) can still need benefits to top up their wage and 2) are still not be able to live comfortably. That is what people need to get worked up about, not the fact that a few unemployable people are buying donner wraps with 'their hard earned tax money'.

As for moving it is something I would only be able to consider if the move meant a guaranteed job with a massive pay rise. It's not something I would rule out for the distant future but I'd need more than £22k to consider it. Even then, I will probably stay up North but would consider places like Newcastle, Manchester, Leeds, York, Durham etc. The idea of paying £400 p/m for a room makes me balk. Like a PP I get an entire house with front and back garden for less than that.

I am just interested in why I moved and others don't and what are the barriers to that etc. I have a sibling who moved for work to Yorkshire. Another in the SE. I wonder if it's about risk taking - that my ancestors and the London immigrants take massive risks that could go badly wrong and take a chance and other people don't have that risk mentality and I am not saying either mentally is better than the other of course - it's just different.

(I am paying about £500 a month by the way for each of my twins (£1000 in total and £12,000 for a the year ) for their rooms in a shared house this year at Bristol university - in the hope they will get good careers and then have no student loan debt but that £1000 a month of course is a risk - they might never work and might never have had to pay the student loan back even)

Frequency

I work fulltime and I will be entitled to UC once I'm switched over. It's criminal that someone can work fulltime 1) can still need benefits to top up their wage and 2) are still not be able to live comfortably. That is what people need to get worked up about, not the fact that a few unemployable people are buying donner wraps with 'their hard earned tax money'.

I totally agree with this, why aren't 'the taxpayers' (which include UC and TC claimants - a fact that is usually ignored) up in arms about people like me and you that work full time jobs but because wages don't reflect the cost of living and because things like rent and utilities are so high, (with companies raking in billions in profit each year) that you're left with no option to claim something to live.

I feel like I just exist to line everyone else's pockets sometimes -

*Earn a wage under poor conditions for low wages to ensure the profit margin for the owners.

*Pay high rent to a private LL (not now but did for years) who refuse to do repairs, to ensure their pension.

*Pay about £100 a month council tax to get my bins emptied effectively. Library is shut, roads have huge potholes in them, no council run schemes, buses or anything. While their execs are awarded a bonus that would take me 2 years to earn.

*Pay higher prices for gas/electric because I'm on a pre pay meter, sit in the cold on my days off - while utility companies rake in the profit each year.

Meanwhile I'm struggling to keep my head above water. I earn a shit wage and most of that goes to someone else with a bit of a crap return really.

I am just interested in why I moved and others don't

Not everywhere in the North East of England is deprived. It is actually a nice place to live, far cheaper than the South East and far less crowded.

As PP have stated, if people did want to move to the South East how would they afford the move and then how would they afford to live once there? It's not as simple as "just move South".

Furthermore, if everyone moved South then the South would get more crowded and more expensive while the pockets of deprivation here in the North East would widen as what investment we do get dries up and the workforce shrinks.

There are jobs to be had in the North East but the people in places like Hartlepool aren't able to travel to somewhere like Newcastle to get them because of the time and expense involved. They need to be helped and supported, how to do that is a whole thread in itself but in the meantime they shouldn't be vilified for the lives they're currently living by people who will spout off about "benefit scum" at the same time as baulking at the idea of investing money to create the jobs that will help them get off benefits.

PS: we also have good schools, colleges, and universities up here. "Only" Newcastle is a Russell Group university and is ranked 141st in the 2018 QS World Ranking. It's not all flat caps, whippets, and grey-tinged, bone-crushing misery.

I am just interested in why I moved and others don't and what are the barriers to that etc.

I would imagine for many, its the cost of moving. Last time we moved, with rent upfront and all it ended up costing us over a grand. If moving from a council place for example..you would have no deposit to get back to help with this. Even if you did have deposit and such covered, there is the actual cost of moving vans and that, unless you just leave all your stuff then there is the cost of replacing them. For many it will be moving away from family, who currently provide childcare to enable them to work. Moving away, you would have to pay for childcare which would generally make someone worse off, unless the wages were a LOT more.

Theres loads of reasons why for many, just moving is not very practical, or even possible. I am often quite shocked to see 'just move' on so many MN threads. Even on ones about minor issues with neighbours. as if moving is so simple..

I don't consider moving for a number of reasons.

1. I have a support network in Hartlepool that enables me to work fulltime that I would not have down south or even in other parts of the north.
2. It is financially impossible. I have zero spare money to set aside to fund a move once basics are taken care of.
3. The kid's dad lives in the north. He threatened to take me to court when I moved from Redcar to Hartlepool until his solicitor told him it was pointless. I doubt he'd make moving down south easy for us.
4. I can't consider three adult sized people living one room, especially when one of those people has poor mental health and I can't afford to pay more rent than I already do.
5. The eldest child probably would not cope with such a massive change due to the aforementioned poor mental health. Her support network is also here. To snatch her away from it would trigger a downward spiral.

The cost of moving is huge.

I've just done a search with a local estate agent. For a two bed unfurnished flat in a nice area that is £500 pcm in rent, you need:

• a £300 holding fee. This is non-refundable should you fail the credit checks, be rejected for any reason, or decide to withdraw for any reason

• first month's rent and final month's rent in advance, so £1000 in the case of this particular flat

• a damage deposit of one month's rent plus £50, so £550

• an agency fee to cover contracts, admin costs, key cuttings, and referencing. This fee is 75% of one month's rent so £375

Before you could even get the keys in your hand, ready to move in, you need £2225 up front. Where does someone on benefits get that kind of money?

And that £2225 is before any moving costs such as van hire, additional furniture, floor coverings, curtains, etc.

A room? My entire house - three bed semi with garage, front and back gardens, utility room, two toilets, and outbuildings - is only £390 a month. Paying £400 for one room is madness

I live in London, zone 2, near a tube. I was renting out a single room, bigger than a boxroom but smaller than a double, for £600 a month. And I had loads of people apply for it. I was struggling to keep up with all the messages.

A room? My entire house - three bed semi with garage, front and back gardens, utility room, two toilets, and outbuildings - is only £390 a month. Paying £400 for one room is madness

Yeah, I live in Durham, and my 3 bed house is 400 a month. No garage, but front garden and back yard, and tbh the house is huge, everyone comments on how big the living room is. It would really sound a huge waste paying that much for a room, plus, a room is not much good at all for anyone with a family.

In the 2nd episode they were losing most of their payment through sanctions. What were they not doing that they should have been? It didn't really explain that. The man just said he didn't understand it but surely it would explained to him if he didn't.

I remember back in the 80s paying more for a room than many people I knew were paying on a mortgage. Renting at the poorest end of the market had always been a con.

In the 2nd episode they were losing most of their payment through sanctions. What were they not doing that they should have been? It didn't really explain that. The man just said he didn't understand it but surely it would explained to him if he didn't.

You'd think so but no. You can be sanctioned for almost anything and decisions often are not explained properly or make no logical sense.

Someone I know who is on UC got a form from the DWP. The letter that came with it said "fill this is and return it by the 12th" (or words to that effect).

On the 8th, they took the completed form to the Jobcentre in person and handed it in.

They were then sanctioned for not returning the form on time, even though they returned it four days before the deadline stated on the letter, because the form takes seven days to process so wouldn't finish processing before the 12th and was therefore "returned late" despite being handed in before the deadline.

I know someone else who rang up the DWP to say her mum had died that morning and could she come sign on the following day instead of that afternoon given the circumstances. Her advisor told her that was fine, she went the next day as agreed but because it was classed as a missed sign-on appointment it had to go to a decision-maker. The decision-maker sanctioned her for four weeks.

People are sanctioned for missing appointments due to being in hospital, for not doing the required 35hrs of job searches due to being ill or not having access to the internet, for not posting out enough CVs, for missing an appointment due to being at a job interview because having a job interview is not a good enough reason to miss an appointment. These are all actual reasons for sanctions. I could go on but do I need to?

REading the above it sounds much better to move to the one room in the SE and claim no benefits for those who are single (and the girl last week who played the drums she might be better off trying to go to university if she can pass her A levels as she'd then be able to get a student loan etc and move to a better area if she wanted to).

Thanks for the answers about how people manage to move. My parents moved to Newcastle after further education in the NE. My father went to Durham university etc. So for them higher education and passing a lot of exams was the route out of poverty I suppose. Not everyone can do that. It certainly looks very risky to rely on the state for much at all if you can possibly help it.

and for doing jury service.

In the 2nd episode they were losing most of their payment through sanctions. What were they not doing that they should have been? It didn't really explain that. The man just said he didn't understand it but surely it would explained to him if he didn't

I think a lot of people, including job center staff fail to remember that everyone has different abilities and different experiences. A lot of claimants might never have used a home computer if they're older or lack education. It's all well and good explaining to them how to log into their online account but what use is to them if they don't know how to turn the computer on or 'where to buy the internet from?'

And benefit letters are rarely straight forward. I consider myself to be a reasonably intelligent person. I'm degree educated. I have GCSE's, A Levels and vocational qualifications. My reading and comprehension skills are good but I can't make head nor tail of the letters the housing benefit send out. I have to log into my rent account each month to find out how much top-up I need to pay. Ditto council tax.

Some friends have just moved to London. They are both skilled professionals. One half of the couple is employed, the other a sahp.
They need references from employer, proof of salary, a guarantor. The guarantor also has to provide proof of salary and a reference from his employer.
If the letting company and landlord are happy with this they will take £500 deposit. The rent for a small 2bed flat is £1200 pm payable in advance.
If the agent and LL are not happy with, for example, the guarantor's reference, they want 6 months rent up front.
The flat is semi furnished, meaning they need to provide a lot of basic things themselves.
Out of several places they looked at, only one LL would take their 2 dc.
So it really isn't an easy process just to up sticks and move down south and get a job.
Don't even consider council housing. There isn't any. Ditto school places. The sahp in this case will be home educating unless/ until 2 places come up.

Because from my experience having all the evidence, doctors letters and proof of disability means fuck all. All you need is an asessor determined to lie through their teeth about you and decide your life-long disability is magically cured and you are screwed. Never mind that PIP is costing the government more than DLA to administer. But hey, I guess it makes some people feel better to know that disabled people like him are being screwed over and left with nothing.

My experience, and DPs too. Great post @JanMeyer

And regarding PIP, as a disabled person, waiting for the letter every three years to tell you if they are awarding another three years is extremely stressful, which isn't good when stress exacerbates medical conditions.

I grew up around Stoke, and it's grim there now, really grim.

I think the UC is trying to stop the cycle of unemployable people having children who grow up to have a myriad of problems in making their way in life. It used to be that single adults got housed, Now they are expected to live at home until they can afford their own place to rent or buy. Benefits are reduced to discourage large families. There does seem to be a large subculture in Britain of poorly educated disadvantaged people, you have to ask after decades of free education and health care why this is.

Bagpuss, and what does any of that have to do with disabled people being denied benefits? You are seriously deluded if you think universal credit is trying to help anyone. All that patronising crap about making work pay when actually UC is punishing people for having jobs. What kind of a system sanctions people for going to a job interview. How is making people on low wages pay their childcare upfront helping them?
People who weren't well educated used to work in factories, jobs which simply aren't there anymore.

Its interesting to note the sanctions regime in regards to benefits is similar in Germany, and there's been lots of protests against it, the social Democrats proposal is that child related benefits are removed from sanctions at all. Its beyond evil that even needs to be discussed. Sanctioning someone for not complying with requirements is one thing, but how can anyone defend children being left with nothing? And that's what is really screwed up about UC, but most people don't realise it could affect them. They think sanctions are for the scroungers. They don't realise that on UC anyone with work related requirements can be sanctioned.

How is removing ESA from a man who is going blind helping him? Do you think that's motivating him to you know, stop going blind?
Whatever the flaws are in the benefits system they won't be fixed by UC. And whatever those flaws are they have nothing to do with disabled people. Ironically enough PIP is nothing but a job creation scheme for so called medical professionals (I say so called because any nurse/paramedic/doctor willing to compromise their ethics to work for Capita isn't worthy of being called a professional), its fucking ridiculous, people with autism, downs syndrome and learning difficulties being given three year awards of PIP, if they get it at all.
Go to college, better yourself, that's the Tory advice. Yet that can actually be used against you if you're disabled. I know that because a disabled relative of mine was turned down for PIP because apparently going to college for two days a week cures you of having a lifelong disability. Apparently it's better for disabled people to stay at home like a "proper disabled person" and do nothing. Now that's fucked up.

I like to think of myself as reasonably intelligent, professional job etc. I have absolutely no confidence that I could make it on UC without being sanctioned. I’m sure I’d screw up somewhere and then what? Whatever that couple did to lose all their money and be left with £6 between them for the month. How is that in any way right or fair? Surely anyone would think well no, an adult cannot live on just £3 for the whole month. So, how do they fulfil all the requirements to get their full money next month? I’m sure they can’t so they’ll be heavily sanctioned again and on it goes.

When I was working in Court and people on benefits got a fine or had to pay costs the Court wasn’t allowed to order them to pay more than about £5 a week. Because people still need to be able to live. If you are going to have a sanctions system, it should be be that deductions can’t be more than about 10% of your total benefit. I don’t care what people do “wrong” according to their biased job advisors and these “decision makers”. I cannot agree with any system that leaves 2 adults £6 a month to live on.

@Bagpuss5 what you are saying is bordering on eugenics. Yes let’s stop the poor, the stupid and the disabled from breeding. Make sure we only have “productive” members of society that pay their taxes. Instead of addressing why these people are let down by society in the first place. My son has ASD, he was left without a school place for a year in high school because he was being bullied and instead of tacking the bullying they put my son in isolation with a book every day. He was learning nothing. He got so depressed I had to take him out until another place could be found. Luckily despite him being let down by the school system he’s done well in life. He certainly didn’t do well because of school. You’re deluded if you think that every child is given the same opportunities. And if a child is going to school hungry because their parents have been sanctioned to the hilt, how is that going to help their learning?

Thanks for the responses to my - could they move to an area with jobs point. I can see it is very difficult for those with children and of course those with disabilities. For the single presumably they could do what the young Irish and many English for that matter have always done - move for a better life away from areas of deprivation.