To wonder how many elderly people in hospital die of neglect?

[Gone2far]

My poor elderly dad is in hospital. Whenever we visit, we're sorting out something. This morning, nobody had made sure he'd taken his medication and, when I pointed it out, they whisked it away. But then told my mother that he had had it.
The hospital is enormous, and you never seem to see the same member of staff twice.
I think it would be very easy for an elderly patient, who didn't have family or friends coming in, to be forgotten, apart from the absolute minimum of care.
Anyway,perhaps i'm feeling this because i'm worrying about my dad. But I know we can't be there all the time and feel helpless

An influx of cash would only work if it was ringfenced for paying for HCAs. A general increase would just disappear into more administration and projects that don't deliver what is actually needed i.e.more staff to actually care for patients basic needs. Ensuring that all patients were clean, fed, hydrated and medicated would transform recovery rates, shorten hospital stays and reduce stress levels.

Completely agree.

It’s interesting how many people are saying dehydration is a massive issue

Watch out for this.

"What you're advocating for green is constant 1:1 care - the NHS has never provided this and never could."

The NHS has to in some cases because those patients are are a danger to others if they don't. They may have to fight it out with social care who funds it but it has to be provided. Unfortunately those who are only a danger to themselves are left to suffer.
In some cases the patient has no relatives who can do it because they are all dead or too ill themselves to do it.

triptraptriptrap

What you are describing is patients in acute distress with unmet needs. Or poor understanding of how to resolve the behaviours. ALL of the things you described are normal in confused patients and are very easily rectified. This is why I firmly believe mental health nurses should look after patients with dementia in general settings - our general colleagues really don't get how to care for them...

So, if your elderly, infirm, disabled or LD family member or friend is in hospital then go in and help out whenever you can and ask other family members to do their bit.

That's not realistic or possible for a lot of people.

Fruit that would certainly be of benefit! And while it may be normal in confused patients in general or down to not knowing how to manage it, but in my hospital it is the dementia friendly wards and its never just one patient. On one occassion an entire bay was filled with the 'lively'' aka very distressed patients, aswell as others in other bays and the cubicles. Its not easy for staff to keep up with, particularly with lack of understanding, training, lack of staff and the general demands. Sadly, its often that these patients are the ones without visitors too (or rather nasty visitors!).

Have to say I absolutely love the elderly patients though, but don't necessarily feel they always have the respect and dignity they deserve. I am however, trying to look at it from both perspectives.

Equally it is realistic and possible for a lot of people, that doesn’t mean it should be necessary.

I’m not excusing poor care but I really don’t think the average person has a clue about how stressful working on the ward is. Take the complaints about patients not being fed - out of 28 patients more than half may need feeding, others just supervising. To feed a patient takes 15 mins at least, more if they have swallowing problems. At the same time that lunch is being given out, 1 nurse will probably be doing the meds round, may involve Controlled drugs or insulin administration which require 2, patients often request a commode, bed pan or need walking to the loo at mealtime, there will also be other patients who may be terminally ill and require position changes, freshening up if incontinent, undoubtedly there will be confused patients who need close observation, ward rounds taking place which need nurse input, patients may be in scan, X-ray and requiring nurse escort, meanwhile the phone’s ringing, random people visiting the ward may need speaking to and staff themselves may be on lunch break. Myriad of different things which can interrupt what you are doing and probably just 2 -3 qualified staff and 4 HCAs and students on shift ! Worse at night.
Try doing it - very different from a 9-5 office job !

When i had my c section sone nurses shouted ag me when a canula popped out of my hand..my fault apparently..it therefore comes as no surprise to me that the much more elderly are being neglected.

My Father was admitted to hospital very recently and kept in for 4 weeks. From the neck up he is fine, but he is 91 and very frail. We witnessed many genuinely caring staff during his time (and our visits) there. When he came out a few days ago he had diarrhoea and a severe chest infection and it is touch and go...
An close family friend was a doctor and told his grown up children that under no circumstances was he to be admitted to hospital over the age of 80! Fortunately he died peacefully in his sleep in his own bed.

When my Nan was in a hospice she had a volunteer assigned to her. The volunteer came in at meal times to feed her and talk to her (even though she couldn’t reply). I often wonder if this could work in hospitals. A bank of volunteers willing to go in for their assigned patient and make sure they drink, that they have had stimulations. It would be quite hands on but for a set amount of time or until they patient left and then have a break until ready to take on their next patient. I often used to see volunteers sitting at desks willing to direct people or hand out leaflets but what difference would it make if they were assigned a patient to chat about what the weathers like outside or read the newspaper to, to make sure they have their teeth or that they had their cup of tea

Omg loads. In old folks home s... everywhere...

People waltz in, get snap shot and waltz out and that's it.

It takes one bad staff member that's all.
I was gob smacked at what I saw...two weeks on ward supporting relative....yes some... good staff as they bloody well should be. .we shouldn't be grateful for caring staff in a job based on care .so many utterly awful staff.

some previous PP are beginning to sound dangerously as if they find the old, demented or just very scared patients a bit of an inconvenience, getting in the way of drugs rounds, or needing to be fed or wanting the loo when staff are busy.

I will never forget the day I arrived to find DM smearing shit everywhere; or the time I found her balanced on a chair with no arms and no one supervising (for a woman with a history of falls and a broken shoulder and hip; or the times I found her screaming in pain and terror. SOME staff were excellent. Some were bloody awful. I am sure she was a complete nuisance - but she was still a person.

Nobody’s an inconvenience!
Just an insight into how stressful the job is... talk about missing the point.

but that IS the job? I completely agree, it must be bloody awful, I couldnt and wouldnt do it. But the sharp end of the job is to look after very old, very frightened, very frail people who cannot fend for themselves in any way shape or form and who may have dementia or who may have developed is after hospitalisation (as my DM did).

I'm horrified at some of these stories and responses!

So if I get this right, there's not enough staff or time to make sure all patients' needs are met. So if for example, they can't feed themselves and need a nurse to sit with them for 15 mins, but no one has time for that, that person simply doesn't eat?

WTF!!

Seen that time and time again. They put the food where the elder can see it but not reach it, even if the elder has sufficient strength and co-ordination to eat.

Thank goodness for the influx of Spanish medical staff. At least they want to work and know what to do.

Food isn't always served by nursing staff, likewise with drinks and ordering food. That's often the housekeepers and hosts.

Patients who are really unable to feed themselves are helped here. Those who can manage are encouraged and assisted if needed. Some do refuse though and they can't be force fed, although some can be encouraged over a lengthier period of time if you are the kind able to get on individual level.
Housekeeping staff also remove the food at set times. Nursing staff also don't have constant access to food for patients either. Don't blame the nurses for everything!

It’s the nurses responsibility to ensure the patients needs are met. Full stop.

In my local hospital, nurses have access to soup and sandwiches for patients at all times of the day.

Eleanorlavish it is then therefore the country’s responsibility that there is adequate staff in order that the nursing staff can do that. Expect the NHS to get much much worse, at some point it won’t just be the foot soldiers getting the blame.

I’m not excusing poor care but I really don’t think the average person has a clue about how stressful working on the ward is.

I bank on dementia wards. All of my patients eat, drink, are kept clean and are affectionately cared for like they were our own family. I'd never let any patient go hungry or thirsty regardless of how damn busy I am and if I have to finish late to get it all done. Patients are people with family and friends, they are someone's everything, their whole world, and nurses that neglect the fundamentals of care by either not doing the task themselves or not delegating it to others and overseeing it to ensure it's done have failed at the very basic principles of nursing and need striking off in my opinion! There really is no excuse, it's pathetic!

m.youtube.com/watch?v=9mZGqZ0--4E