To think the Katy Perry shoes are NOT racist? Just fuck ugly?

[hotwing]

How on Earth are they 'racist'

I like them but I like unusual shoes

Objects can absolutely be racist. What about the Gollywogg?

Objects themselves can not be racist. It's the imagery the objects conjure up that can be racist.

@mac

Can you point us in the direction of this evidence that golliwogs have never been a symbol of racism?
Everything I have read, and this is over a period of years, generally agrees that they were a caricature of the minstrel which was blatantly offensive, even then.

@nodnol

This is what I've always been taught as the ORIGINAL meaning of the dolls.....
One theory of the origin of the name “Golliwogg” says that while British soldiers held Egypt in the second half of the 19th century they had Egyptian laborers that worked for them. Workers wore insignia W.O.G.S. on their armbands which meant “Working on Government Service”. British troops spoke of them as “ghouls” - which is an Arabic word for a desert ghost. Egyptian children played with black dolls which they would sometimes give to British soldiers or they would buy dolls from children. That dolls were later called “Ghuliwogs” and later “Golliwogg”. How much truth is in this theory - it is not known.

Until recently, this is all that came up when searching for the Golliwog doll.

As a white person, I can say that I know that black people consider black face/golliwogs offensive, thus, I can conclude that anything resembling is likely to be considered offensive or racist.

This comment jumped out at me. I'm mixed race and I do find golliwogs racist. My black father doesn't. It's almost as if people, whatever their skin colour, have their own opinions..

Can't we at least agree that they're fucking hideous?

Collectively: YANBU!

It's almost as if people, whatever their skin colour, have their own opinions..

Fair enough.
But we often use "people" as shorthand for "most people". There are always exceptions and minorities.

@macblank

You were saying they were racist... They're NOT. That is a big point, especially when you're wrong.

No... I’ve never said anything about the item (either way)...

Can you point us in the direction of this evidence that golliwogs have never been a symbol of racism? Everything I have read, and this is over a period of years, generally agrees that they were a caricature of the minstrel which was blatantly offensive, even then

Not to mention the fact that they inspired the racial slur "wog".

As for the shoes, there is no escaping the fact that they evoke images of blackface and only an idiot wouldn't have noticed that before releasing them for sale.

@macblank
Discrimination against you when you're white doesn't mean you have any idea about racism. A couple of instances of discrimination against you is completely different to the systematic discrimination faced by most black people. I suspect you're that poster that crops up every time there's a discussion about racism to say your child's father's family all hate you and treat you like shit, which is not a comparison to racism - it's not the same as, e.g. teachers having a perception of you as an angry black girl, or being treated like the aggressor during arguments, or being passed over for jobs because your name is a bit 'out there' compared to being called Emily Smith or whatever. Discrimination because you weren't a young pretty woman wanting to be a waitress doesn't correlate either. And your story about the origin of Golliwog may be true - but it's also true that Paki is just a shortened term for Pakistani but I suspect you wouldn't argue that it's not offensive, would you?

As I said upthread, I personally don't see the blackface thing, but I am white, I have faced no end of discrimination but none of it has ever been for the colour of my skin. Therefore, it is not up to me to police whether or not a black person finds these offensive or not!

The white ones are more skin coloured than the black ones that just look full on black. I think they are quite offensive, I am white and only buy black shoes. I would feel like I was making quite a twattish statement by wearing those.

Why didn't she just do the weird faces on different coloured shoes like neon or brights?

I don't think they are racist, or that they were meant to be racist. They are, perhaps, poorly considered - now that it has been pointed out, the black ones do bear some unfortunate resemblance to "black face".

However, I do agree they are very ugly. But, to each their own...

Discrimination against you when you're white doesn't mean you have any idea about racism

But it does mean you have a whopping case of white privilege to think that it gives you any idea of what it's like to be the subject of racism.

I've never said I've faced racism in the same way as those of darker skin.

As for the word Pakistan, I've known plenty of Pakistanis who find the word funny, and say... I am a Paki, it's my culture nd ancestry. They (well my neighbors at work) say, what I find dumb, is when people say to me... Have you got any Indian recipes.. stupid wankers, I'm a Paki (direct quote from her)

So yeah, some find the word,.or words offensice, others take it with a pinch of salt.

I've joked with them at work, like I would any other colleague, and vice-versa. It's included words neither of us, would use outside of work and away from each other, but that's cos we know some may be offended. Any one who has worked in a call center knows the honour is a bit ripe!

I was a research analyst in a call centre for nearly ten years, can't say I heard much in the way of cheerfully racist banter.

I've worked in sever call centres over the years as a temp.
Casual racist banter was never a thing in any of them

several

Seems like s very misguided attempt not to be racist to me. They do one based on Katy Perry’s face (obviously a lot uglier than perry who is beautiful and doesn’t have a gold triangle for a nose). They make it and think ‘we’ll seem racist if we only do it in white/beige’ so they put it in other colours. No-one ever looks at the black shoes on their own, cause if they did they’d realise it looks just like a racist cartoon.

So in summary, intent: not racist but a bit ignorant, outcome/perception: racist.

@macblank at 18:05 you said:

Racism works both ways, way more times than you think about. I've suffered from PC racism, where I can't do something or apply for stuff, because I'm white.

So excuse me, I think you did say you have experienced racism, 'in the same way' is kind of implied.

And your charming little story about your Paki friends - so you would feel happy calling them Pakis would you? Because it sounds like you're being deliberately provocative and disingenuous to me.

racism works both ways 😂🤦What an eye rollingly ignorant (and fundamentally flawed) assertion. There's always one!

[[https://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/ try here mac]
And trust me you need to do some reading.
I may be many things, but stupid isn't one of them; so I still call bullshit on your post claiming racism for being white.

www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/ Proper link. apologies.

Oh, and unlike tutankhamen, no arm bands bearing the legend of which you speak, have been discovered. Most historians do have a tendency to prefer empirical evidence, the internet finds that a tad difficult...

Yes I call my friends paki... Not behind their backs but to them and in context of conversation. You're making it sound like I've just made a dirty little secret I should be sorry for.... I'm not.

And in no way, am I trying to say the PC racism I encountered is the same as that suffered by others..... Again, trying to cause trouble, you are.

Go back to your room and stop trying to cause trouble, and stir up hatred. It won't work with me, I won't play your game.... Bye bye yawn 💤💤😴😴😴🛌

Yes I call my friends paki... Not behind their backs but to them and in context of conversation

Sure you do.....

I have no idea why you sent me that link?

Who the hell was that bloke?