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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be angry that parents won't allow their children to go on school visit to local mosque?

346 replies

ptangyangkipperbang · 04/07/2007 14:06

DS2 is going on a school trip to the local mosque. However, the school nearly cancelled it because so many parents have refused to let their children go. I have only spoken to one parent who won't allow her child to go but she said "I'm not racist but...why should they visit a mosque when we daren't get a plane or go to a shopping centre because of that lot". Not racist .

OP posts:
Blu · 04/07/2007 22:56

Who is slagging off scientologists?
Whilst 'preaching' tolerance?

Mirage · 04/07/2007 22:57

Our little rural primary school did an exchange visit with an inner city primary whose pupils were almost entirely Moslem.They came to visit our church & the children here went to visit their Mosque.As far as I know,no one refused to go.

I'd be quite happy for the dd's to go to visit any other place of worship.I do keep meaning to take her to the Jain Temple in Leicester,as it is reputedly stunning inside.

edam · 04/07/2007 23:00

Personally I find it hard not to take the piss out of a bunch of people who believe in the bizarre rubbish of scientology. Martian bishops and operating thetans and all that nonsense. (Although it did inspire the name of a particularly lovely MNer.)

At least with established religions, the bizarre stuff has the patina of history. And scientology was invented by a tenth-rate sci fi novelist who said quite clearly that the way to get rich quick was to invent a religion. So I believe it is reasonable not to take Scientology seriously...

Blu · 04/07/2007 23:04

And from his post, DC would seem to agree with you, Edam.

But what worries me is that I made a tongue in cheek comment about visiting the scientology HQ and DC completely went off on one, implying that I was being intolerant, himself making all sorts of accusations about the reasons people value these visits....

LittleBoot · 04/07/2007 23:04

I think we're all entitled to slag off scientology

And christianity. And Islam. And Judaism. And Buddhism. And Sikhism. And Jainism. And Zoroastrianism. And... etc. etc.

Blu · 04/07/2007 23:08

Aah - free speech and tolerance - still under negotiation in our liberal world, where free speech has traditionally been championed to allow the opressed minority to have thier say - the previously censored gay times, the revolutionary left, etc. But now free speech and tolerance are often pulling i different directions, and we have to support free speech for the intolerant, the opressive.

madamez · 04/07/2007 23:49

Starry, the reason why some people send their kids to faith schools when they don't hold the faith themselves, is because there are NO other schools in the area. I'd certainly be havppy for my DS (in due course, he's not 3 yet) to be taken on outings to various temples etc and taught about the various myth systems as it adds to one's understanding of the world to know what differnet people believe in.
But I'm hoping to avoid his having to go to a faith school.

DominiConnor · 04/07/2007 23:58

I apologise for misinterpreting you Blu.

lemonaid · 05/07/2007 00:15

StarryStarryNight, I agree with madamez on this -- in plenty of rural places, the faith school is the local school. The village primary school where I grew up, for example, was a C of E school. So were the primary schools in all the nearby villages. I guess if parents were willing to bus their children far enough they could have found one that was non-religious somewhere, but no guarantee they could get a place.

meowmix · 05/07/2007 07:45

personally I count that John Travolta Scientology film Battlefield Earth (?) film as an act of violence.

Quite why Alitalia thought it such a good choice of the sole inflight movie I'll never know.

ptangyangkipperbang · 05/07/2007 09:37

The headteacher at DS2s school rang me up last night because I had written to her saying how I was really glad that they had decided not to cancel the trip (this was one option that they had considered). She was really grateful that I had written because so many parents had been so negative about the visit.
She said that those that went had a really interesting time and that they were now looking into where the nearest synagogue was for another trip
They are also considering a 'twinning' with a school which has a large proportion of Muslim pupils. This scheme is already taking place at DS1s school and is really successful.

OP posts:
AngharadGoldenhand · 05/07/2007 09:45

Mirage - it's stunning.

Leicester Jain Centre

Peachy · 05/07/2007 10:05

DC I don't think most poeple I know have any issue with what the Scientologists believ,e its their active conversion policies that worry people. Groups such as these target the vu;nerable (and indeed the vulnerable target them. i can send you a hundred inks about them but many are from non-academic sources- however I did find an academic one here which is always prefereable I feel to some blogger in cyberspace.

One of the features that distinguish a faith from a cult is donatins- something required by Scientology. Other reigions of course willa ccept them, but there is no obligation- in islam for example, whislt Zakat is a central tenet it is only voluntary,expected of those with surplus cash and then is aimed at provising a charitable relief for Muslims. Taht is a key difference, imo.

If a friend comes to me and says I am a Muslim / Sikh / Budhist i would think good for you. If a friend comes and says I am a Scientologist / Moonie etc I would worry about them.

FioFio · 05/07/2007 10:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Peachy · 05/07/2007 10:08

Oh and as with lemonaid and Madamex- we sue a faith school because it is the catchment school, we'd have to apply to the LEA to transfer the boys to the next closest school and I'd have to buy a car of my own or trek 40 minutes in all weathers each way with 3 kids, one on reins due to SN. Not practical.

LittleBoot · 05/07/2007 10:17

Well my DC's go to a faith school because it is a very good school and I like it.

I'm a raging atheist, but I like the school's ethos and atmosphere and I see no reason why my children should not have access to a publicly funded school which is round the corner from us. I claim secular virtue points for walking to school and therefore being green and I make no apology whatsoever for using state funded facilities.

Judy1234 · 05/07/2007 10:24

Scientology is a dangerous cult. The English courts have held it to be so and it can't get charitable status. The German authorities are also very concerned about it too. It's just opened a new headquarters in London. It needs to be watched and curbed.

Peachy · 05/07/2007 10:27

Agreed Xenia. For soem reason cults were big news in the seventies / eighties- now they seem almost accepted. ifne, until its your kids

duchesse · 05/07/2007 11:07

Personally I find any "religion" whose premises are more far-fetched than a b rate sci-fi thriller to be cultish.

Unfortunately for me this also includes believing that bread and wine turn into blood and flesh, that virgin women can get pregnant remotely, and that dead people come back to life. I guess that just makes me a heretic. I should be burned.

Judy1234 · 05/07/2007 11:11

I don't think they are accepted. There are lots of anti-cult groups. The Germans are doing fine work against the Scientologists too.

edam · 05/07/2007 11:13

Um, duchess, are you inviting a chorus of 'burn the witch' accompanied by piles of kindling and flaming torches?

duchesse · 05/07/2007 11:27

Does my bum look big in these flames?

speedymama · 05/07/2007 11:32

I've witnessed the impact of losing a child to a cult. My mother's neighbour's daughter was brainwashed into joining the Moonies. It took them over 10 years to get her out. Even though she has been out of it now for many years, she is still mentally scarred and pychologically as well emotionally disturbed. She has trouble holidng down a job. She is in her 40s now.

DominiConnor · 05/07/2007 11:32

Peachy, I share with you suspicion about Scientology, but don't see any difference between it and many Christian groups, who don't get the same sort of scorn.
Most Christian sects have at some time required their people to give money, and in places like Germany they had actually got the state in on the idea.

As for it being a dangerous cult...
Someone once said that a cult was a religion without political muscle.
No one here seems to have any knowledge of them actually doing any violence to anyone ever.

Try to write down a description of the regime of Monks and Nuns to be found in most Christian groups, that doesn't sound cultish ?
I can't. Can you ?

They do try to convert people, that is of course the official duty of every Moslem and Christian. Jehovah's Witnesses go door to door, indeed all of us have had various sorts of Christian trying to convert us.
Don't recall any of them being outlawed for it.

I had a friend who became a Scientologist. His nickname before was "Mad Ian", so it wasn't much of a shock. So yes, I see them as more flakey then most religions, but not that much more.
Also I don't think I should have the power to enforce my view upon them. To me that's the basis of any religious freedom. Once you start saying that the state has the right to say what's OK to believe, it's hard to see that ending well.
In Germany Tom Cruise is being persecuted in a way that would cause outrage if he was a member of a more politically powerful religion.
OK, he's a movie star, and it's an inconvenience which he can live with, but what if he was just some bloke trying to do his job ?

Peachy · 05/07/2007 11:45

from what I know of JW I have to question their lack of cult-ness too, purely from the reports of a friend who was on the fringes

I guess the thing is DC, that yes there are various sections of allr eligions but anyone can set themselves up as a branch of X Y or Z and say they want money. However, if ytou want to assess a religion truthfully you nedd to look at the mainstream presentations- I could set up a thread on MN encouraging everyone to give their kids a diet of fruitshoots and chips, but although that would then be a mnifestation of MN it certainly wouldn't be the true picture iyswim.

I read a wonderful book many years ago written by a chap who was paid to go undercover and 'rescue' people from cults. he ahd a working definition of cults- I will try and find it but t was a loooong time ago- and the book included a checklist of the popular belief systems at that timw and a checklist of where they fitted the operational defintion. Scientology ranked very highly iirc.

I don't beleive anyone shoudl be eprsecuted because of their religion, and I also beleive that we need to haev religious freedom. That doesn't mean we have to tolerate the practives of religiosn that use brainwashing, or other mind control techniques. It just emans that we don't judge each individual on the absis of their selected faith.