...do teachers really work that hard?

[User298895613]

I know the general idea on AIBU is that teachers work load is ridiculous, that they work extra hard and that they never never stop to the point that they r all seemingly leaving the profession.

But, AIBU to wonder if they are any different to anyone else? and actually might have it a bit easier? I mean, I also work myself into the ground, am exhausted, never stop etc... But I don't have summer holidays off to look after my kids, and I often work well into the small hours at night.

I'm not saying teachers don't work hard, but sometimes on munsnet I just feel like some teachers kind of spend a lot of time complaining about the workload, when maybe it's just the same as everyone elses, but with a nice long summer holiday?

(Sorry, I appreciate this will really inflame some posters, but it just had been annoying me lately)

Teachers complain that they work in evenings and on weekends. So do most of us, mate.

But are there people queuing up to tell you that you’re lazy and only work part time? We aren’t complaining about it-merely pointing out that we don’t work 9-3 unlike popular belief.

HedgePlastic everyone on the thread who has taught and had totally different careers says teaching is harder for less money.

In teaching you are scrutinised constantly. With children the rule is two positive pieces of feedback for every negative piece, but teachers have to accept endless negativity and ridiculous, pointless, monitoring of things that aren't even useful. The soul destroying thing is the amount of time demanded by initiatives and data gathering and marking things that could be marked in class by students more usefully but have to be seen to have extensive written comments from the teacher on them. It takes away from planning engaging lessons adapted and individualised for multiple abilities, learning styles, gifted brilliance or special needs (or both within one child) which could be an entire full time job on its own. Then there's the actual teaching, where you're constantly "on" and dealing with massive behaviour issues, threats, and attempts to provoke one minute and thoughtful, insightful, challenging academic questions which deserve thoughtful, insightful, academically rigorous answers the next - as well as all the kids who think it's your problem that they've lost their coursework etc.

Dealing with parents is a whole other problem - I deal with parents in my job now but they're not nearly as unpredictable and illogical as when I was teaching. I once had a furious father spit at me because his 14 year old son couldn't read. I'd been teaching him for less than a week...

Yes. Yes they do. But no more so than the emergency services or NHS staff.

Yes but they're heroes and angels.

Teachers? Lazy layabouts.

If it's just like other jobs, why is there a recruitment and retention crisis looming?
I've done several 'other jobs' and I've taught for 20 years. There's no comparison in terms of stress, expectation and general lack of appreciation. And teaching isn't especially well-paid.

MissMarplesKnitting

A lot of job changers come into teachers and think "f*ck this" and go back from whence they came, realising the grass was not greener
Financial journalist. Had a shock at the chalk face

Lucy Kellaway decided to retrain as a maths teacher in a challenging school aged 58 (she's 60 this year) - whilst still writing columns for her newspaper and co-founding a charity! She has 4 kids and now teaches economics and business studies.

Maudelynn how can you go into teaching if you fail your a levels? It’s a graduate profession. To do secondary, for example, you need a degree in your subject (or similar field - not all maths teachers have maths degrees for example but they will have a degree in a subject requiring a high level of maths) followed by a post grad pgce.
But you keep on with the digs, just don’t complain when your dc don’t actually have anyone left to teach them.

She has 4 kids
Probably in their 20s by now.

Yes and she had to drop to part time as it was too much for her!

If it's just like other jobs, why is there a recruitment and retention crisis looming?

Not in primary schools.

Depends where you are. My dcs school in Scotland had real problems getting a replacement for a teacher who left halfway through the year. They had short term supply from four different teachers. This is in an attractive urban area, shouldn’t have been hard.

Yes and she had to drop to part time as it was too much for her!

Sounds to me like she was trying to do 3 jobs - I wonder if many people go into teaching, not expecting it to be a full-time professional job?

Clavinova Lucy Kellaway's children are adults - one of them is also a teacher.

I've worked in academia, and it is a walk in the park compared to teaching in schools. The constant pressure, ridiculous observations, list ticking, I don't know how they manage to function.
YABVU and you know it.

OP, you need to read this:

twinklsecondary.blog/2019/01/17/why-do-teachers-only-work-half-the-year/

And she had to move from maths to business studies as well as going part time.

It's not a doss.

Clavinova is not a fan of teachers, I wouldn’t bother engaging.

Lucy Kellaway is still fronting her charity and still writing columns for the Financial Times:
nowteach.org.uk/lucy-kellaway-from-ft-columnist-to-now-teach-trainee/
www.ft.com/comment/lucy-kellaway

I teach in a college and I’m part-time (2.5 days a week).

Luckily, because I teach a creative subject, we don’t have weekly marking (I may give some feedback to their progress between assessments).

My class sizes are great - the largest is 24, which is unusual. Behaviour is generally not an issue. I have my admin time to prep any lessons and because I’ve been doing it for a while, I have built up lots of resources to help me.

The pay isn’t great (we get less than school teachers), the holidays are less, I often use my own money to buy things that my students need as our budgets are rubbish. Often work through lunch breaks too. Have to deal with stupid expectations/constantly changing goalposts, for example.

But there is no way I’d do it full-time - not with being a single parent to two kids. The workload increases substantially and you often have other responsibilities that mean lots of extra working hours outside of being in work. It’s bloody impossible to do a good job without putting in an extra days work on top of your weekly hours.

And there is not a chance I’d teach in a school! I’m in total awe of school teachers - it’s a tough job and this whole culture of slagging teachers off is bloody annoying. It’s not a job for the faint-hearted and it certainly isn’t family friendly.

Maudelynne
Teaching was the soft option back-up for people that failed their A-levels back in the early 90's, unsure if this is still the case? I think you only needed two E's .....

I needed a minimum 2:1 in my Biology degree (for which I needed a minimum of 3 B grades at A-level) to get onto the PGCE course. This was over 15 years ago, and the requirements to just get onto a good degree course are much higher now. .

*Rainuntilseptember

I wonder what the effect on the psyche is of not only doing a difficult job but being repeatedly told you are shit and not deserving of respect and should count yourself lucky to have your job.*

After 15 years of teaching, I ended up being signed off with stress and anxiety. Had counselling, CBT and medication, plus a lot of support before I could get back to work properly. It does grind you down, constantly being told you’re not working hard enough!

How about, just for a change, people just support each other and sympathise when someone wants to have a bit of a moan about their job. Another one here for ‘it’s not a race to the bottom’!

But are there people queuing up to tell you that you’re lazy and only work part time? We aren’t complaining about it-merely pointing out that we don’t work 9-3 unlike popular belief.

I have "people queuing up" (including a teacher friend ) to tell me I am lazy/lucky because I WFH a couple of days a week and it must be great to get laundry done/save on childcare/vacuum etc, I don't get offended or defensive about it, I just say I wish!!

I'm lucky if I have time to eat between back to back calls.

Some comments are tongue in cheek others are just because they don't know my work commitments. I am on regular conference calls way outside my working hours (and past my bedtime!) to other geographical regions, but they don't see/know that and I don't expect them to either!

Holidayshopping the people who should have to gain several years of work experience outside schools are senior managers.

I went from an office role to teaching and now do a support role outside education - the people skills of senior managers when it comes to managing adult staff were absolutely dire. I've never encountered people as bad at managing staff as the senior managers in the two secondary schools I worked in.

And she had to move from maths to business studies

Perhaps she's not that great at maths? Her degree was PPE.

Like anything though, it depends on so many factors. The area, the school, the person.

So I am in Scotland. Teachers voted in an asymmetrical week in my area. This was sold on the basis a Friday afternoon would be used for training to avoid disrupting school week. My sister is a teacher, my best friend, my friend, my cousin and my SIL. They are all free Friday afternoon. They work 8 to 4. That is all. Friday home by 1. No weekend or holiday work.

I am a court legal aid solicitor. I leave at 5.30am. Home 7 earliest. Called out in the night, phoned and emailed at all hours. Work every Saturday, most Sunday's. Wage is substantially less than teaching friends. If I get two weeks holiday a year I do well (excluding Christmas but am on call then).

Have friend at a school elsewhere. She works hours similar to mine, holidays, evenings as well. So I don't think it's a blanket position. However, I can get fed up when I hear SIL complaining as she genuinely does not work anywhere near as much as others jobs.

I'm now on maternity (unpaid) and am slowly realising there is no way I can go back into court work and actually ever see my daughter.