Brownies, a waste of time!

[Growuppeople]

My daughter has been with brownies over a year, they have been on one overnight trip. My DD wants to do scouts but she’s so shy around boys. She wants to do camping, building campfires, adventures! Not knitting or art and crafts! I pay nearly £50 for uniforms, £10 for the “new book” and now I have to go bowling with them. I thought they would learn independence, health and safety among other important life skills. Am I wrong in thinking I’m wasting mine and my daughters time, she is learning absolutely nothing, or is she just with a rubbish group? What do all your brownies do?

A lot of the MN comments about Brownies v cubs are nonsense.

Until the new programme came in (is being phased in) this year there was some variability between Guiding units but as the programme and the 'selling point' was never to complete with Scouting it's like comparing apples and oranges.

As a Brownie Leader, I built a unit with 4 residentials a year (plus district/county/region opportunities), night walks, cooking on candle, on fire and in a sun oven. My girls learnt to use tools and then family members came to help them build a bird box. We covered the UN development goals and impacted real change on some issues in our local community. They also learn to sew on a badge and a button (as do the cubs) and make a cup of tea. Parents who also had a child in the local cubs would comment on how active we were in comparison.
Now we're bringing in the new programme, which grades the level of activities so that there is a cohesive progression through Rainbows-Brownies-Guide and a find that I've been pitching too high all these years. The girls who could make a birdbox last year are now limited to tapping drawing pins into fruit.
So, I'm leaving. If I were a Brownie parent with no understanding of what's going on I'd probably remove my child. BUT, and here's the actual crux of the matter: THE GIRLS ARE LOVING IT! It may sound like an excuse, but my numbers are up and although some of the parents are grumbling the feedback from the girls themselves is very positive.
OP if your DD would prefer cubs then move her. There are enough girls who want a place in guiding that you don't need to feel you must stay to keep up numbers.

was in Brownies in the late 80s/early 90s and we were being read books about how to be a good helper to mummy by doing the housework and sewing and baking etc

Nothing wrong with learning how to look after your home, sewing or baking to be fair, useful skills in life. I learned to sew and bake as a boy, it's actually been pretty handy (ironing would have been handier...still terrible at it!)

I stand corrected on the training point- it's not evident in the activities offered or the organisation at DDs pack though.

Nevertheless , I am grateful for anyone that gives up time to run voluntary activities and I can see DD enjoys herself and makes friends which is very valuable.

@drspouse
@IceRebel
@MillicentMargaretAmanda
@00100001

Thank you! I have learned something new today about activities, I didn't know at all about the people/animal shape targets rules.

Have to say, the range of activities and the new badge book, Guiding has certainly changed in the last 20 years - it has been well and truly dragged into the now and the badges are definitely not 'housewifey' any more...

“I stand corrected on the training point- it's not evident in the activities offered or the organisation at DDs pack though.”

Hmm. To adapt a Mumsnet staple “Did you mean to be so bitchy?”

My DD had a good Brownies experience.Their leader d8d a mix of things but based around them getting their badges.They were out as much as possible in the summer.
Parents helping was an issue.I couldn't help in sessions because of work but on pickups DD and I were the only ones helping to put the Scout hut back in order for the next users.

It probably depends on the group's, I have a daughter that's done brownies and a son in cubs, my daughter's brownie group did loads of camping, camp fires, out door things etc and my son's cub group has done one camp, a bike ride, then everything else has been paper crafts or games.

“DD and I were the only ones helping to put the Scout hut back in order for the next users.”
This would have been appreciated so much! After years of lugging boating equipment to the shed past parents waiting in their cars, we are pathetically grateful for any help-particularly with the clearing up!

we have the problme of our girls being really busy - so even when we offer stuff outside of unit time, they are already "in a show/have ballet/do horse riding/piano lessons etc

We offer stuff, but things don't always happen. We have offered 2 camps (Wellies and Wristbands and a local activity camp) and they're either not interested, or are away on holiday. So we haven't actually camped for about 3 years.... but not because the leaders haven't been keen/ haven't got their permit.

Hmm. To adapt a Mumsnet staple “Did you mean to be so bitchy

Why is it bitchy? My DDs pack don't do a range of activities. That is a fact, not me being bitchy.

Did you read the bit where I said I was wrong about the training? Did you also read the bit where I said I was grateful for the time given up by volunteers and my DD enjoys herself? Doesn't change the fact that they don't offer a range of activities in this particular group.

I am constantly surprised at how one can have their character assinated through joining in a conversation on a written thread. I don't really like being called bitchy because I'm not. I'm quite nice actually but you wouldn't know because you don't actually know me and you're making an assumption based on one written comment.

So BertandRussell in answer to your slightly rudely worded question, no I didn't mean to be bitchy. I was stating a fact about my DDs pack that doesn't apply to the entire organisation.

No prizes for guessing I'm a Brownie leader.

Goodness only knows what the parents actually think about my unit's programme, but I rarely have a child leave before they are ready to move up to Guides, have a very full unit (32 girls), and have the daughters of both of our local cub leaders in the unit, so I'm guessing it's not all bad.

Over the years, we've done a reasonable share of craft and a bit of baking. Heck we've even done sewing twice, although it's a pretty stressful experience. We've also
Been camping
Been on overnight and weekend residentials
Lit fires
Cooked on campfires
Cooked on camp stoves
Cooked over candles
Been climbing
Been on night hikes
Been canoeing
Been cycling
Been den building in the forest
Been ice-skating
Been geocaching

If your DD isn't enjoying her unit, move her to Cubs, but don't tar us all with the same brush please.

And if you think recounting your dreadful experience from 20 years ago and assuming that Girlguiding is exactly the same now makes you look clever, think again.

I did Girls Brigade when I was a child and that was so boring - went to Guides once with my friend and it was much better but I wasn't allowed to join. Can your DD try out Beavers to see if she'll prefer it?
DD is in cub scouts (it's been mixed sex over here for decades so no worries about taking over male spaces, more girls do it than boys in our local area actually) and it's really good, a good mix of outdoorsy activities and arts and crafts and games. She joined in the Autumn and has already done a day hike in a forest including climbing up a gorge which felt quite dangerous to me! (I volunteered), outside camp at the end of October in the cold where they learnt to whittle (knives are an expected part of their kit), built insect hotels, and made pom-pom things out of wool, big camp coming up in the summer, they will be learning about taking care of pets this spring.

Or cubs or whatever it is

Baden Powel who was the founder of scouts made it what it is today. He wanted boys to be better members of society, have fun, learn new skills. When girls came up to him and said "we are the girl scouts" Baden Powels sister founded the Girl Guides. She had the same vision for the girl guides, better members of society etc. Remember that girl guides were founded in 1910, when "better members of society" for women was running a house hold, knitting, sowing, baking etc etc. I know that some units have moved on from that, but not them all.

If she wants to go more outdoor activities move her to scouts. You may be able to sell her uniform on?

People do spout some rubbish... @immeanttobeworking here is the list of Brownie badges available in 1918:

Intelligence (blue) - Collector, Observer, Signaller

Handcraft (yellow) - Artist, Weaver, Woodworker

Service to Others (red) - First Aid, Guide, Orderly

Physical Health (green) - Athlete, Swimmer, Team Player

@ImMeantToBeWorking
As a former Brownie, Guide, Young Leader and current Guide Leader that's bollocks! Sorry

Well any of the ones around us that's the feedback we had heard. When we opened the scout unit there was girls and leaders queuing up to change over. Had never been camping some of them.

Yes all units are different, but some are much worse than others!

There was an Aviator badge for Guides in 1918.

MN is a wealth of knowledge on a lot of subjects and there are some pretty intelligent people here, but Guiding is one thing that MN does talk a lot of shit about.

Everytime I open a thread on Guiding, I play Bingo:

I was thrown out of Brownies
Brownies/Guides just do crafts
Cub/Scouts do more outdoor stuff
I'd like to help but....
Etc etc etc

Waves to fellow Guide leaders

Anybody who has read the Chalet School books will know that early Guiding was far from all setting tables and making tea.

'It bucks you up and makes you smart' I believe was Grizel Cochrane's summing up of what GG was about. Was thinking about that just the other day. And Elinor M B-D was no feminist.

Too true, BertrandRussell!

Am a Brownie leader off tonight to make pancakes (their choice). Am currently trying to get a mentor to extend my 'going away licence' so I can take them camping in the summer (again, their choice). We do lots of outdoor stuff, plus active games, as well as the craft stuff. Again, the girls' choice as we're girl-led.

My son is a sea cub and has come home with a list to do his 'home help' badge including changing the bed and cooking a meal. Seems a lot more domestic than anything we do at Brownies (and I love it - he's learning some great skills).

Will read the entire thread later over a post-Brownies cup of tea!

Waves back at BookWitch and other GG leaders on here!

Was chatting with the postie this morning - she'd noticed all the stuff I get sent from Girlguiding (I have a few roles) and she's a treasurer for a Scout group in the next town. They each have their own treasurer for a Beaver/Cub/Scout group. Am very jealous. Hate doing my accounts :-).

“She took the secular brownie promise and was not not permitted to take the secular guide promise”
What happened when you took this further?