Double decker bus on motorway with infant aged kids - opinions needed!

[ThisMustBeMyDream]

AIBU to feel reluctant to send my year 1 child (although I don't think it is relevant, to avoid accusations of drip feeding, he does have SEN) on a school trip that involves travelling on a double decker bus approximately 30 miles, majority motorway.
I asked school, the bus apparently has lapbelts. The reason for the choice of bus over coach is due to cost. Trip wouldn't go ahead otherwise.
My child has done a similar trip before, but I had no idea that the travel arrangements where as above. I assumed it would he minimum 3 point seat belt on a coach, which while not perfect, would offer some protection. I am angry at myself for not being aware of this on a previous trip.
I asked if my child's Ofsted registered nanny could take him, and accompany the trip. I was told no, because the head has said there are enough adults attending and he doesn't want any additional.
I have an otherwise excellent relationship with the school, and feel they are wonderful with my child.
I have to make a decision by tomorrow whether to let him go. If I don't, his SEN will make it awful for both him and the staff in the school as he won't understand why he has to miss out.
I feel a bit backed in to a corner here.
AIBU to be unhappy at the travel arrangements?

*you’re

At what point is a child in school going to be asked to do a journey without a seat 🤒

So many idiots

I think I am literally the only person here who would absolutely have an issue with this! OP I totally understand your concern. My company would never risk assess this as acceptable for a work trip for a bunch of grown adults let alone primary age children who in a car would need to still be in a booster! It’s a massive pain to find them but work will only use coaches with proper three point belts for even the shortest of journeys. I’d be quite concerned about a school trip that didn’t (DC fortunately not school age yet).
Risk assessments are indeed about likelihood and consequence - However something like an RTI (so any road journey!) with a high potential consequence (multiple fatalities) even with a low likelihood would for us flag as amber/red and require mitigation to bring the risk down to ‘as low as practicably possibile’, in this case that would include 3 point seatbelts along with a professional driver and reputable coach/bus company that carry out adequate maintenance, careful route plan to avoid any accident blackspots and others I’m sure.
If it wasn’t so close I’d suggest speaking to the school and asking to see the risk assessment so you could decide for yourself whether you were satisfied they had made it as safe as possible / safe enough for you to be comfortable. In the short term I think asking for the nanny to be allowed to drop off and pick up is reasonable, yes, they are still doing the journey by road and yes the likelihood of an accident is similar (maybe higher - not sure I’ve ever seen stats for buses vs cars based on passenger miles specifically on mortorways) but if involved in one your child would be much better protected in their car seat.

are you for real dr

Hi OP I’m a bus driver with 15 years experience. Hoping I can put your mind at rest a bit.
Drivers are extremely highly skilled. The training we get is constant and ongoing. On top of that, we are covertly assessed regularly and any problems, even tiny ones like not checking all mirrors every 8 seconds, will result in more training. We know the gravity of our job.
The vehicles are mechanically sound. Every bus depot has a chief engineer and a crew of engineers below the chief who have to make sure of that. It’s on them. The driver then has to complete a 21 point safety check on the bus before it’s driven. Any issues we report and are given a replacement.
Serious accidents are rare because of all of the above. You hear about BECAUSE they’re rare. If it was as common as car crashes you wouldn’t see reporters turning up. Even if something goes wrong, the driver will know what to do to minimise the outcome. I hope I’ve reassured you a little 😊

I travel by coach several times a year and even the most modern have only lap belts

You obviously DO NOT. and i can say this with a great deal of confidence because i've literally spent 6 hours on national express coaches today, and 7 last friday all 3 point seat belts. not a lap belt in sight. Which National express make it very clear with repeated announcements that you are required to wear by law. And this has been the case for years. I took my now 20 year old god son to dancing on ice when he was 11 and we had to wear 3 point seat belts so unless your coach travel was all done nearly 9 years ago i call bollocis

Any way OP while i understand your concerns and the issues of it being a lap belt but its not something i'd be massively concerned about. He will be supervised. And all though some of these replies are patronising (uninformed it seems) motorways are resonably safe (all travelling in one direction and a resoanably similar speed) and yes i'd back a bus rather than a small car.

I agree with freddy though things make the news because their unuseal. Crashes must be rare. You think of the buses travelling around the cities every day let alone in the rest of the country so statistically anything happening is unlikely.

Hope freddys reply has put your mind at rest a bit

Freddy makes good points.

Here is how I would look at it;

Should DS travel on a Motorway in a bus?

Motorways are statistically safer than all other roads, even accounting for speed.
Buses and coaches are statistically safer than cars.

Therefore the rational decision is to allow DS to go on the trip.

Are there any ways to reduce the risks even further?

Probably. This is where seatbelts / lapbelts come in.
Depending upon his SN would it be appropriate to ask if DS could sit on the lower deck and near to an adult?

Would this sort of approach put your mind at rest?

At least there are lap belts.

A fair few times recently I’ve had to catch a rail replacement bus that went down the motorway, people of all ages, normal service bus with no restraints.
When I was at school we went to Camelot at the end of year on the buses you describe. It’s beyter than missing out, as I say at least there are restraints and the lower bus seating (as opposed to full coach seating) meant the teachers could see everything easier...like the kid trying to stick gum in my hair

A 3 point belt would have been more dangerous for both my dc in year 1 as they would have been too small for them.

Ok, as a paediatric intensive care nurse you are being ridiculous your child is much more at risk walking down the road. Also school trips are vitally important, they’ll teach him how to be part of a group and manage behaviour independently.

In the past I have also helped out at a special school, they went out on trips very regularly with kids and all the children survived and quite frankly were far better behaved than a lot of Neurotypical children I’ve seen on trips.

Also you will give the school a reason to say they can not manage your child on trips. If you don’t trust the school to safely manage your child. Then why should they take the risk.

The school’s risk assessment will have been sufficiently robust as they can not afford it not to be.

Statistically, buses and coaches are one of the safest forms of transport. Much safer than cars, even accounting for booster seats and isofix etc. available in cars. Statistically, you are more likely to be in a road accident within a few miles of your home. Motorways are much safer, even accounting for speed. Buses, coaches and their drivers are trained, monitored, maintained etc. far more strictly than your average car or car driver.

YABVU for all the reasons others have said.

Please, please, please let your child go on this trip!

I think you are over-playing the benefit of the car seat. The order of safety would be:
Bus with 3-point belt > bus with lap belt > car with car seat.
It doesn’t make any sense to say he can go in the car with the nanny.

Where I live I quite often see double deckers on the M1. They always travel in the slow lane, and probably aren't even doing 60mph. Statistically they are very unlikely to be involved in any kind of road accident on a motorway. In towns, with the stop start driving a passenger of any size is far more likely to be bumped around.

Will your DS have an adult sitting with him?

I’ve been present at sessions of traffic safety expert meetings as part of my work, and am surprised to hear that there are buses with lap belts. Sending children on buses/coaches without any restraints is known to be unsafe, although it still happens for economic reasons. Lap belts are not particularly good either. The statistics about the relative safety of walking/car/bus are misleading because you have quite a lot of control over what you do when walking or when at the wheel. I would be reluctant to send my own child in the circumstances the OP describes, though I might end up doing it. But the ‘bus with lap belts’ sounds so weird that I’d be double checking if there are any belts at all.

When my daughter went to a private school about 20 miles away. They were three to a seat and no belts.
I was very unhappy at that.
Then the bus was always breaking down and the final straw was when a window fell out.
In desperation My husband bought a mini bus and hired a driver and all the local parents supported us and paid each term to get their daughters to school.
( we were very unpopular with the bus company as you can imagine )
But I just couldn’t bear having to risk my daughter like this every school day, plus I had to pick her up from the drop off point the other side of town and our driver dropped all the girls off at their homes.

If they won’t let your child go with the nanny, I’d be inclined to keep him at home

I think your anxieties about this travel is quite reasonable. These buses are inadequate for travelling significant distances. I wouldn't transport my child on her 30 mile school journey each day without ensuring car security.

However these coaches and buses are inadequate for all children regardless of Sen, and most parents have no real choice in the matter and just allow them to go.

Risk is very low and motorways are the safest roads in the country so I guess the risk assessment would be low and no more significant than letting a child enjoy an adventure playground experience

Yanbu

Just say no.

I always go with my instincts when it
comes to school trips. The school won't mind. One less student to care for. Don't overthink it and just say no if you're not comfortable.

A full face helmet will make him considerably safer on the bus.

It's irrelevant what any of us think. It's your son and you have to do what feels right to you. Just go with your gut feel and sick to that.

I travelled on coaches half a dozen or so times last year, once so far this year..... I’ve NEVER been on or seen a coach with three point belts.

Never been on narional express then bugger

Never been on narional express then bugger

No. Schools around here don’t tend to hire National Express coaches but the one my daughter got to Scotland (admittedly a few years ago now) had lap belts.

Well it must have been over 8 years ago

Also no one said they were solely talking about school coaches