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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU not to want child to have his surname?

376 replies

Jess499427 · 09/02/2019 20:23

Hi all

I am pregnant with my first baby, due in June. Me and DH are married but I didn’t take his surname. There were a few reasons (practicality/effort of changing my name, I quite like my name, and I’ve had it my whole life so would feel strange to change it), but the main reason was that DH’s surname is very unusual and when hearing it for the first time, people often laugh.

We have discussed baby names but have got stuck on the surname. DH is keen for baby to have his surname and I am keen for her NOT to have his surname. I feel like it’s unfair to inflict the name (it is quite awful, it’s hard to describe without actually saying what it is) on a brand new person! I have suggested that she could have my name, we could choose a new name, we could all have a new name... but he is adamant.

AIBU? We are both being quite stubborn. Should I give in? One of us will have to!

OP posts:
SemperIdem · 10/02/2019 18:40

Whilst I took my ex husband’s name on marriage (for reasons explained in previous post), I can easily imagine that my daughter might marry and keep her name. She might not but I can see it. Incidentally, I have no intention of reverting back to my despised birth surname. My surname upon marriage wasn’t a loan. It’s mine now and I will be keeping it.

KatherinaMinola · 10/02/2019 18:52

This thread has reminded me that when I was at secondary school a new teacher, going through the register for the first time, actually sniggered at one child's name. It was one of the names mentioned on the thread.

mytieisascarf · 10/02/2019 19:21

I really can't be arsed finding sources because I've had a glass of wine but all of the research i have come across in my professional studies actually suggests that it is not parental separation that causes negative outcomes for children - it is parental conflict. A child's life opportunities and health are more accurately measured by looking at their ACE scores and poverty levels. It is far too simplistic to assert that married parents = successful children.

Uptheapplesandpears · 10/02/2019 19:36

Nope, it's just one of the dimwitted reactionary tactics used to argue that men's names are somehow their very own names, whereas women's names are always really someone else's and kind of detachable.

Yep. Which is why it so often goes alongside the argument that it's a choice between your dad's name and your husband's, rather than your own and your FILs which wouldn't be any less accurate. It's not like most of us know who the first person to have our surname was anyway. Most come from men but certainly not all.

honeylane · 10/02/2019 20:22

Sorry I'm just cracking up at some of the suggested horrific surnames on here. Wanklyn has really tickled me.

I really wish we knew what it was

Uptheapplesandpears · 10/02/2019 20:31

My bet is Cockburn.

OnTheHop · 10/02/2019 21:16

There is a garage in Wales called Wanklyn’s.

Is it one of these names?
www.google.com/amp/s/blazepress.com/.amp/2014/06/45-unfortunate-names-ever/

honeylane · 10/02/2019 21:21

That list is fab!!!

I cannot fathom why oh why anyone called Richard would prefer to be known as Dick or even worse Dickie

GummyGoddess · 10/02/2019 21:32

Aside from tradition, why is a man's name more important? I like my name, it means a lot to me and I changed it to this at 18 as it's my DM's original surname and there are buildings my grandfather built that have this name which I like. I don't like DH's surname, it's boring and has no interesting history behind it.

Tradition is a weak argument, it assumes that thinking of thousands of years ago is correct and that those justifications are still valid, which they are not as I am not someone else's property and the world is unrecognisable compared to now.

Limensoda · 10/02/2019 21:35

I really don't understand why women still take their husband's surname or give their children his surname.
I have friends who have different surnames to their children because they've married again after divorcing and others who have two or more children with none if them sharing a surname.
If I could go back I would have kept my maiden name and given that to my children. I've not changed it back because I want the same name they have.

coolwalking · 10/02/2019 23:00

I am in a same sex civil partnership (haven't upgraded to married)

My surname is cool to me but its quite unpronounceable! Not bullied about it but in general it's harsh sounding. I am the last in my family with this name due to my Aunt taking her husbands name. My partner gave birth to our daughter and she has my partners name is a common standard name (think smith)

I am a bit sad that my name won't be carried on but I think that she deserves a surname that is easier. She really suits her name. I don't feel oppressed by this.

CommanderDaisy · 10/02/2019 23:45

I have a surname ( maiden) that I think is reasonably easy to pronounce , but the rest of the world fucks up regularly. I kept it when I got married as I am lazy and couldn't be arsed with all the palaver involved in changing it. No feminist rationale.

My husband has an Italian surname that with the switching of one vowel turns it into an objectionable swear word. He and his brother went through school with a most charming nickname.

I honestly never even thought about giving my sons my surname, so they wouldn't be called the same thing throughout school.
We warned them what they'd be called. Kids are unoriginal . They were not surprised therefore when every kid and his dog started calling them this at school. It starts with a C. One of mine has turned it into a joke, the other just rolls his eyes and claps back.

Your husband survived well with the name. Is it that bad?

StoppinBy · 11/02/2019 00:51

I grew up with married parents - they were both arseholes, marriage didn't help them or us kids one little bit.

On the other hand I know single parents who have raised their kids with love and have supportive families to mind their children while they work/have some free time etc.

I know which family I wished I had of grown up with.

AdrienneJ while I appreciate that you have a strong view point I think you are looking at it in a very short sighted way, marriage doesn't make children's lives better, having a healthy, happy house hold does.

As a married Mum of two I think your opinions need a little in depth consultation with reality.

SandyY2K · 11/02/2019 01:32

Surely you discussed this before getting married? I'm assuming you wanted DC and you knew his surname.

Double barrelling is fair, otherwise you're basically saying his surname isn't good enough for your child.

His surname is part of his identity and you're denying your child that by taking your stance.

Before anyone says it happens when women take the husband's surname...and the child does too.. that is their choice.

Aleela · 11/02/2019 03:36

that wasn't necessarily aimed at the fact of not taking the mans name, but as a tradition thats usually been passed down over hundreds of years why would anyone want to stick a spanner in the works and interfere with what is clearly a passed down family name and age old identity of the child formed by tradition

What? As if only the husband/boyfriend's name has a long history of has been passed down? I have my step-grandfather's last name (by choice I changed it from my birth surname in childhood with permission), that name has a long history too.

zeroSum · 11/02/2019 03:42

This reply has been deleted

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Elephantshoe · 11/02/2019 04:17

As per previous PPs, why on earth does the child have to have the mans surname?! Chrissakes its 2019, not 1019 where we need to obey, take their name blah, blah blah

His name is part of him. You wouldn't like it if he told you to die your hair or to get a nose job so stop trying to get him to disassociate with his name which is just as much a part of him as your hair or nose

OPs name is part of ,_her do why does she have to give up her name?? Since when do women need to acquiesce to the mans surname??
You're also giving him a lot of power/responsibility for your child..
If i could go back, there's big chance I'd give my first born, beautiful son my surname.
My surname is strong, unique, and once you pronounce it correctly is beautiful and original.

adrienneJ · 11/02/2019 05:12

Of course nothing makes us stick with tradition but we cannot say it is unimportant as it has differing values depending on who you speak to. It would be very unusual for a native Brit to oppose the traditional culture in terms of how we name our kids so it obviously is important to us.

We wouldn't expect a typical long standing British family to name a child Kim Yo Pong or call them by their last name first or any other way not related to our cultural norm.

With relation to the OP her DH would like to continue the traditional norm that is important to him and his wider family having been passed on through generations taking pride to continue that. I'm willing to assume that OPs name was taken on by her from her father too so its widely accepted that is the cultural norm to be given a First name and a Surname (being spelled as far back as 14th century as sirname or sirename meaning 'mans name' or 'fathers name')

So we're at a point where the dispute over the name is a largely selfish issue in that OP likes the sound of her name better.

And selfish is normal, its not some evil conjuring we sum up, everyone is selfish, if you aren't there is something wrong with you as its in our nature so lets get over the fact that I'm not judging OP but merely stating what it is.

So then the question is 'does my selfish need surpass that of the fathers and the upset to him and his family that his son and their grandchild has been dissociated with them because the mother thinks her name sounds better?

I believe if there's sound reason for such disassociation; if the father-in-law happens to be a serial child murdering rapist then by all accounts your selfish want to distance the child from that name would indeed surpass any objection were it raised.

In the case as laid out though I don't think its reasonable, its obviously a name DH is proud to own as per his nickname and should be just as proudly owned by your child to be. I'd like to think any encounters with any ridicule even if it were to occur should only serve to indicate the type of moron they aspire not to be. I'm sure you'll give them the tools so overcoming such a situation they dont even feel a bump in the road.

Were it to go as far as the courts which would be ridiculous then were no agreement in place the mother would have to have a good reason for the courts not to name the child in the traditional patriarchal way.

I do hear the argument that some are saying in that why should it be patriarchal norm but I would say that conformity is important when it relates to the personal identity of an individual throughout their life and I just dont see any strong enough arguments of why that should change in favour of the opposite

Should a man not take pride in passing the family name onto his children and who are we to take away something which to many fathers means a great deal to them that their kids are associated to them by name.

I really can't be arsed finding sources because I've had a glass of wine but all of the research i have come across in my professional studies actually suggests that it is not parental separation that causes negative outcomes for children - it is parental conflict. A child's life opportunities and health are more accurately measured by looking at their ACE scores and poverty levels. It is far too simplistic to assert that married parents = successful children.

OK thats very interesting I cant help reading between the lines here though. If a childs happiness and health are more accurately measured by ACE scores and poverty levels (in your words) then it would seem a contradiction to your assertion that recently showed 46% of kids in single mother households were classed as being in poverty compared with just 11% in similar married couple households.

JassyRadlett · 11/02/2019 09:24

Were it to go as far as the courts which would be ridiculous then were no agreement in place the mother would have to have a good reason for the courts not to name the child in the traditional patriarchal way.

Interestingly, no. Newborns default to their mother’s last name, not their father’s.

I do hear the argument that some are saying in that why should it be patriarchal norm but I would say that conformity is important when it relates to the personal identity of an individual throughout their life and I just dont see any strong enough arguments of why that should change in favour of the opposite

Why is conformity to patriarchy and tradition important? Which bits of patriarchy do you think it’s important to conform to?

Should a man not take pride in passing the family name onto his children and who are we to take away something which to many fathers means a great deal to them that their kids are associated to them by name.

Should a woman not take pride in passing her family name on to her children? Why should it mean more to a man than to a woman?

Mummyoflittledragon · 11/02/2019 09:42

Christ adrienne. You’re not Benjamin Disraeli giving a world class speech. The only stick I see in your first sentence is poking out of your bum.

Do you really think wrapping misogyny up and spouting it as though you’re some kind of faux intelligentsia will impress?

Jassy
Well said!

GummyGoddess · 11/02/2019 09:59

Is the question not does the fathers selfish need surpass that of the mothers and the upset to her and the child that her child will be called a whore (if surname is hoare/hawes for example) because he thinks his name is more important than the child's feelings?

barryfromclareisfit · 11/02/2019 10:02

Outed, Mrs Knobtwiddler.

Parthenope · 11/02/2019 10:12

Newborns default to their mother’s last name, not their father’s.

Indeed, and the one person I heard objecting very strenuously to this, when I was on the post-natal ward with my newborn, was an utter thug whose 'male pride' was apparently so wounded by the fact that his girlfriend's name was on the baby's wrist tag and not his, that he threatened both her and a midwife, and was removed by security.

I do hear the argument that some are saying in that why should it be patriarchal norm but I would say that conformity is important when it relates to the personal identity of an individual throughout their life and I just dont see any strong enough arguments of why that should change in favour of the opposite

I'm struggling to understand your logic here. Are you saying that conformity to a pre-existing set of patriarchal norms dating from the days when a wife and children were the man of the household's legal chattels, is more important than the fact that this is no longer the case?

Why is 'conformity' so important to you? Do you do everything, and think about everything, exactly the way your parents taught you? Are you surrounded by people who think and act exactly as you do? Why is placating 'male pride' so important to you?

TriciaH87 · 11/02/2019 10:25

If you were to double barrel it i suggest using the hyphen. My sons is double barrelled with the hyphen and school use both parts however when he started and i filled out the paperwork it asks known as. For this you could just put the one surname. Do remember however as a female when she marries her name will change meaning her children will not have the name. My eldest has only my surname as was not with his father whos surname was bates so being a boy i avoided him being teased for it. He would not of took it even if had been together anyway. My youngest has both after an argument about me wanting him in mine because we are not married and because of my other child. So we doubled it and he is known as both. My family send cards with my surname his family with his. However when we do marry if i can change my eldest sons name we will all just have my partners. If not myself and kids will double barrel.

Bubastes · 11/02/2019 10:31

I'm struggling to understand your logic here

Logic is not a feature of any of her arguments. Her only concern is defending the patriarchal traditions.