Aibu to think MN should delete anti-vax threads?

[FigandVanilla]

The anti-vax movement is becoming a public health issue, and children’s lives are being endangered as a result. This obviously doesn’t only affect the children of anti-vaxxers, but also children who rely on herd immunity to protect them.

There is no scientific basis of any kind to support the anti-vax movement. It is an area where the scientific and medical community are in total agreement - vaccines save lives.

But there are not infrequent threads on Mumsnet where anti-vax sentiment spreads. And it’s always heartening to see the overwhelming push back against this from MNers. But I fear that there will inevitably still be parents who are swayed by these posts.

I am all for debate, but this isn’t a debatable issue. It’s an issue where one side is selling lies and misinformation. Facts are facts, and the truth is anti-vax threads exist because of a denial of the facts.

Should these threads be allowed? Or does MN have some kind of moral duty to children that means they ought to refuse to be a platform for a movement which is based on lies and which is actively harmful to children?

Banning topics for discussion? It's a dangerous precedent to set, OP. Besides I'm all for exposing anti-vaxxers to the facts, and tuning over the rock they hide their half-baked theories under .

See, you're worrying about the miniscule possibility that some waverer here will be swayed by them. I'm coming at it from the direction that most waverers are more likely to be swayed the other way once they see the ridiculous premises of anti-vax theory deconstructed and debunked by the majority of mners with common sense and a firm grasp on scientific reality.

There are already plenty of banned topics. Anti-vax is a rather arbitrary place to draw the line.

Which topics are banned?

YRBVVVU. We are a free society and can post what we wish

There shouldn't be any debate about vaccinations. They should be compulsory and those who don't should be charged with child endangerment. If autism is an issue, this stems from MMR in which case people should chose to do single vaccinations instead of combined.

If MN delete the antivaxxer threads it won't make any difference because you can't argue with stupid.

do think that it’s possible to overload a child’s immmune system with the number of vaccines we give now and the schedule which they are given in.

Actually, most scientists working in the field would argue that in developed countries, most children's immune systems are underloaded in over clean environments.
Our children's immune systems need more challenges, not less.
Typical example, as seen when most people from developed countries go to a less developed country and, well, develop diarrhea.

Their immune system can cope with vaccines. It's the live virulent germs that it has more trouble with. Particularly on a blind date.

Yes, delete
any anti vac posting give the impression there is nothing wrong. These childhood diseases can and do kill children.

I’d rather them post here and get intelligent replies and facts than get their information from those mumsy hunsy Facebook groups giving it the ‘mummy knows best’ crap.
Might save a few lives!

The anti vaccine movement is dangerous but shutting down debate won't solve the issue. They will just go elsewhere into a space with others who agree. It may also increase the chances of them considering everything is a big conspiracy as the topic being shut down could be deemed as them being silenced by "big pharma"

There have been some informative posts on MN about the adjuvant load of the current schedule. It is something that is being studied, so I wouidn't be in a rush to pooh-pooh too comprehensively the idea of overload (but it's not for the reasons most anti-vaxxers appear to use)

Also, the work about clean environments and the age at which DC first encounter things like the common cold is not related to vaccines (I'm assuming you're thinking of Prof Greaves work, apologies in advance if you meant something else)

It’s good that anti vaxxers can post here, they can then be told they are stupid and shown evidence.

If they weren’t allowed to post in places like Mumsnet then they would never be challenged.

They'll just post on FB (or NM) and get ignored or validated by their acquaintances.

They will not have the guts to post on actual scientific fora.

@Summer I agree re. the Chicken Pox vaccination. Within a few years I'm sure it will be considered an essential jab and parents who don't opt for it will be castigated even though we know it is almost always a mild illness when caught in childhood.

I was criticised on a different thread for stating I had no intention of allowing my DC to get it even when I pointed out that the NHS website clearly explains why it is not required. Of course there are exceptions and some children might end up hospitalised with CP but that is extremely rare. Probably almost as rare as the number of children who have a severe reaction to vaccinations.

Yet I've read posts on MN where parents have said they wish they'd had their child vaccinated because when they had CP the child was 'covered in spots' and 'suffered itching'. Well yes, that's chicken pox. It's not a severe reaction or remotely life threatening.
When and why did it start making sense to vaccinate kids just so they don't suffer the temporary discomfort from an illness that is better for them to get during childhood?

I'm sure I'll be labelled anti-vaxx now even though my DC have had all their required vaccinations^ or perhaps heartless^ because I'm not thinking about the pregnant woman on the bus a child might pass chicken pox onto (never mind that almost all adult women have already had CP) so I'll get my coat!

I didn't vaccinate my child against chicken pox and I'm pro-vaccines. :)

That shows how little people understand the different vaccines. It's silly to be pro all vaccines or against all vaccines without evaluating their relative merits.
But guidelines are written by experts because they are the people qualified to evaluate those merits.
Even though I probably know more about the subject than most MNetters, I'd still refer to expert advice and see how it applies to my individual situation.

To say cases of CP complications are rare therefore no need to vaccinate doesn’t make for a very strong argument, complications with other diseases are equally rare yet are the very reason we vaccinate against them. Drawing the line at CP as ‘unnecessary’ because it’s basically spots and itching when the exact same could be said about the average case of measles seems weird to me. Mind, I live in the USA where CP vaccinations are as routine for children as the MMR or any others. If it’s preventable why not prevent it?

It seems it may increase the risk of shingles among adults.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/chickenpox-vaccine-questions-answers/

I've just checked here for Portugal and it isn't part of the national vaccine programme either, and it's only recommended for teenagers without a history of vaccination to prevent complications if caught in adulthood. This was based on WHO recommendations

But, I don't feel qualified enough to comment on how valid or not these guidelines are.

PLEASE don't delete them.

We need to know where these muppets are.

They should be allowed to stay so we can tell them how wrong they are.

As much as people who don't vaccinate disgust me, YABU.
Surely that would be tantamount to propaganda?

Ah, thanks Lwej hadn't realised the increased shingles risk, mind you, old(er) people are now advised to have the shingles vaccine here too. That one's fairly new though and not effective to a very high percentage going off early reports and I'm (not quite) old enough to have been urged to advised to have it by my health insurers who are all about saving money preventative care.

Some anti-vaxxers are ex-vaxxers for a reason. It's not all black and white lets group the good against the bad.

yabu
HOWEVER I think @mnhq should put a note on each of those threads pointing to nhs and who vaccination information.

What you don't get is the full rate (or anything) on government family payments. Unless you have a valid medical exemption for some/all or a doctor attesting you are adhering to an approved 'catch up' programme (useful if you have moved back from abroad where schedules may vary). The 'conscience clause' has gone, even for JW.

In Australia if you’re not eligible for family benefits you can still get the child care rebate if you’re working or studying 15 or more hours a week. This pays half your child care costs, assuming your child is at a registered child care. If your child isn’t vaccinated you can’t claim it and they’re very strict about it. I was a month or so late getting my 4th child his 4 year jabs (every intention, just busy and my GP is very popular. You need a doctor appt as well because she likes to check them over over the nurse has measured and completed their 4 year check). I very quickly got a letter informing me that the Child Care Rebate would be cut if I didn’t hurry up.

There is a medical exemption form but they only accept the genuine medical exemptions - anaphylaxis (not egg allergy) and immunocompromise.

Yes, they should treat it like any potentially dangerous medical advice people are giving out as fact

Maybe it isnt 'good and bad' but its definitely about right or wrong.