Farmers dogs on public footpath

[Cuppateeee]

Just been on a lovely walk in the countryside, only to be spoiled by a shouty farmer. Need a different perspective on it otherwise it will just wind me up. Will include picture.

Walking with my dog on a lead through a field, staying on the public footpath when I see two border collies barking in the distance. I stay where I am to look for a farmer to check if they are aggressive or not, no one in sight, they are staying where they are but still barking and in the way of where I need to walk, so I went back and walked down the other side of the fence.

I get to the bottom and see the dogs have gone, also notice the gate was open so they could have got to me anyway, never mind I’m there now and go over the stile back onto the public footpath.

Only then I notice the dogs have come back, so again I check to see if I can see the farmer because whilst they weren’t growling they were barking which is intimidating enough.

At this point there is a fence between us so not a problem but I check to see where the public footpath leads and you’re supposed to join the farm track but their gate is open. The dogs are following me and my dog down the fence, still barking, so I decided to walk away from them not wanting to risk what would happen when we reach the open gate. I am at this point on the farmers field.

After a few steps a farmer comes running shouting for my attention, I stop and see what he wants. He said ‘the footpath doesn’t go along there, you’re damaging the crops’. So he was clearly watching me, and would have been able to see that I was uncomfortable with his dogs around.

There is snow on the field so I wasn’t sure what I was walking on but either way I said, sorry I appreciate that but your dogs were being aggressive towards me and my dog so I felt I had no choice.

He kept repeating that if I can’t stick to the path then I shouldn’t go on the walk, which in normal circumstances I totally agree with, but in this case I felt it best, to protect me and my dog.

He insists his dogs are not aggressive, they are with him at this point, still barking but I admit not growling or coming closer, just staying with him, but I said again that I was not to know this and didn’t want to risk anything happening to my dogs.

In the end I walked away because he clearly could not see my point of view.

So was IBU waking on his land or was he. And if he was is there anything I can do to stop if happening to someone else. Sorry for the long post, thanks for reading.

@Streetwise - my daughter's small cockatoo climbs a stock fence that divides her garden from her neighbours one...but I suspect, based on your previous posts, you won't believe this either. I'm beginning to think that you are one of those who don't believe anything that they haven't experienced for themselves.

My friend's terrier can climb trees, honest to God she just hurls herself straight up them! . She'd laugh in the face of a 4ft fence

I'm assuming that's a cockapoo, rather than a bird climbing a fence

I think it a good 4ft stock fence stands a very strong chance of keeping most uncontrolled dogs out.

Shame that you're wrong though.

“my daughter's small cockatoo climbs a stock fence that divides her garden from her neighbours one”

Yes, and my old springer spaniel used to scale Nelson’s Column just for a laugh.

Sorry... Bloody auto (in)correct... it's a cockaPOO that climbs the stock fence

@Streetwise why do you refuse to believe people? We can't all be making stuff up?

I'm choosing to believe streetwise is on the wind up.

Any other alternative is very worrying to me.

She/he is definitely a tad peculiar I have to say. No idea how many people have posted on here, dozens though, and we are all liars!

My dogs routinely seem to prefer jumping over the fences, rather than walking through the gate I have just opened. They also take a flying leap over the 2.5 metre wide stock grids.

I can see this from both sides.
Yours: you didn't know the dogs and wanted a safe route so took the option of cutting through his land, which is understandable.
His: yet another person cutting through his land, his dogs alerting him to the fact someone is near/on his land.
I'm a farmers wife and know our collie barks if someone comes close by, she wouldn't hurt a fly, which we know but others would assume otherwise! We are grateful she acts that way as it protects our livestock, machinery and crops from potential threats. As far as my dog is concerned, it's her job to protect and despite being very smart, doesn't understand how to tell the difference between someone posing a risk to the livestock, and some one out for a wander with their dog.
Maybe in the future, if you speak to the farmer and find ask about his dogs/what he suggests as an alternative. I'm sure he doesn't want to be making an enemy out of you.

I have no horses in this race. But I just have to say that StreetwiseHercules you're coming across as an absolute dullard.

Is anyone else really amused by the drama on this thread or is it just me?

@FrancisCrawford..

They could have been perfectly under control - but the OP isn't a mind reader.

The law works in some aspects along the 'reasonable man' principle.

Is it reasonable for someone to KNOW, with confidence, that unattended, barking dogs, who are not secured, are in fact well trained and will not bite or cause injury?

Nope.

Is it reasonable for someone to suspect that unattended, barking dogs, that are not secured and could easily get to them, may cause injury/bite...

Yep.

I work with dogs on a daily basis -I will NEVER EVER assume an unattended dog is in fact well behaved, friendly, not a danger etc etc. To do so would be foolish.

This explains legislation in question:

"Under section 3 of the Dangerous Dogs Act an owner, or a person in charge of a dog, commits an offence if the dog causes reasonable apprehension to a person that they will be injured, whether or not they actually are injured. Unlike most offences in English law no criminal intent or recklessness is required for liability to arise and a person can therefore be guilty of an offence even if their dog was on a lead and had never behaved in such a way before.

(My bold. wheldonlaw.co.uk/dog-law-solicitors/dogs-dangerously-out-of-control/ )

There is no requirement for the dog in question to actually bite or cause injury.

mmmmhmmm the farmer v public are always the best, most dramatic threads!

Is this a stock fence?

I'm choosing to believe streetwise is on the wind up.

Any other alternative is very worrying to me.

Aye, I've come to that conclusion too. Totally batshit.

Things you are likely to come across in the countryside;

Grass
Farmers
Tractors
Lots of noise early in the morning
Lack of shops (esp 24 hour ones)
Cows
Sheep
Various other livestock
Lack of police
Rural crime
Working dogs on their ownersland who do very useful jobs like herding sheep, acting as a guard dog barking at strangers (see crime and lack of police above).
Delicate growing plants which should not be trampled on.
Trees
Little light after dark

The countryside is lovely but it is also someone’s workplace, home and livelihood. These things come above your need to go for a walk I’m afraid.

If you don’t like any of the above list, stick to local park.

There seems to be a growing number of dog owners who seem afraid of dogs. If you have a dog, expect to go where there are other dogs. Go where there are dogs expect barking! It’s how they communicate. It’s one of the reasons man domesticated them.

Out of interest, why should people’s right to go for a walk be given the lowest priority?

Visiting walkers and tourists are essential for many parts of the U.K.. the highlands rely on this. When foot and mouth hit this wasn’t recognised andnthe countryside shut - as did many local businesses. If find this sneering at walkers interesting.

As I have said before, it’s possible for everyone to co-exist happily if neither farmer/landowner nor walker acts like a tosspot

Walkers have perfect rights to walk along a public footpath. This will ensure businesses that rely on tourism do fine

What does trump their rights is a farmer being able to have the assets (in this case dogs) to enable and protect their business and not have idiots trampling all over his business assets (crops) because they are frightened of a barking sheep dog (not really an unexpected occurance in the countryside).

In this instance the walker had 2options - keep walking past the barking farm dog as she walked across farmland or if frightened turn back. The walk across his crops was not necessary it was for the walkers convienience

I haven't rtft so apologies if this has been said.
You have a common law right to deviate around an obstruction - I think you could argue that the risk of a dog bite is a physiological obstruction!
In this situation, neither you or the farmer were wrong. You did a reasonable thing faced with the unfriendly dogs, he got cross because you were off the footpath.
Farm dogs are working dogs are we're doing their job, the farmer is being disingenuous to say the dogs are friendly - they might be to him but many a nip has been administered by a border collie to an unsuspecting walker.
In an ideal world, the farmer should have called his dogs away to allow you to walk through.
If I were you, I would contact your local Councils Rights ofvWay department and report this. If it's a one off, they are unlikely to do anything, but if there have been other reports of the dogs being a nuisance they might follow it up.

Beamur - why was there a risk of a dog bite? I’ve walked miles and miles in the countryside over the course of my life. I have never had,nor heard of any of these unsuspecting walkers who have had many a nip off a collie! Utterly bizarre statement!

I can just see the headline now! “Petrified hiker scrambles across growing crops with her dog in effort to evade a barking dog behind a fence” together with said walker in new hiking gear with sad compo face!

Out of interest, why should people’s right to go for a walk be given the lowest priority? I hadn't thought of it like that.

I'd say that it is more that the right to walk isn't the singly most important right.

But I get the feeling that there are 2 distinct perspectives:
Farming/rural comunity who see the damage done and want to shout at all walkers to respect the laws governing their freedom to walk - the Countryside Code

The not necessarily rural/farming walking community who want to ensure that their rights to walk are protected.

Both sides are scuppered by the cohort, from both sides, that doesn't respect rights of way and the law. Plus those who don't understand the other side. I have a few neighbours who have very rarely been into the nearest city, about 8 miles away, as they get all their needs met locally. They have no idea how or why people would want to live there. And then there are people in that city who have never been outside it and think/feel exactly the same. These people are not old, reclusive. They are of all ages, many the heart of their community.

Put them together and they have few common points of interest and are just bemsued by each other.

But mainly I think that those shouting about loss of livelihood will, and should, be given priority hearing over those who shout about not being able to walk as they will! Even in Scotland, with its much freer walking rights, that is the case with first caveat / restriction to that freedom : Respect the interests of other people;