Do people understand that many of us have lived through high periods of unemployment?

[marymarkle]

There are major issues for young people today with zero hour contracts and high housing costs. But I do get a bit fed up with comments that state that life is much harder for young people now that ever before.

I left school during the Thatcher year. Unemployment was very high and outside London whole communities were decimated by this, I still remember a classmate just before we left coming into school excited because they had secured a job in a factory. Jobs were very hard to get, reaching a peak of 10.8% unemployed in the early 1980's, and that was with them fidding the unemployment figures. And there was no MW, wages were often very very low. Yes house prices were cheaper, but that only benefited those already doing well.

I remember it as a very grim time in our country. While the City was booming and people earned massive bonuses, street homelessness soared, use of illegal drugs soared, as did crime. And many adults in their 50s who lost jobs during this time, never worked again. It was a grim time economically to be young.

" I love that you quote social housing rates from the 70's when we are talking about the 80s"

Except that far more people still lived in social housing in the 1980s too, private rents were much cheaper in the 80s too.

Lets compare the figures for those who were young in the 80s, generation X with the current youth then, for amount spent on rent.

Those born between 1945 and 1960 spent £9,000 ( in real terms) ion rent before they were 30. Those born between 1981 and 2000 spend £53,000.

Those renting in the 80s spent an average of about 15% of their income on rent, those renting today spend 40%.

So yeah its harder now.

Members of generation X, born between 1966 and 1980, typically spent £28,000 on rent before turning 30.

The UK, along other countries, can't sustain such high populations and new technology solutions which reduce the need for human employment and, at the same time, provide a wonderful lifestyle for all its citizens. If you voted for free movement and think everyone should have the freedom to have as many children as they like, whether they can afford them or not, and you welcome 'progress' then you also have to accept the downsides which are a shortage of housing and jobs.

inter generational hostility

I don't think this is the right term. The problem comes from the older generation, not the younger. I have not seen any hostility from younger people, and I work with them.

*do love that older generations ( those born post war) give the " we didn't get anything" shit.

Yeah, free education*

Presumably you mean university. Only a small percentage went to uni because
A) it was difficult to get in and
B) a lot couldn’t go because they had to earn to keep the family.

on the job training, free health care ( including dentistry

We still have these.

low house prices but wages were very very low as well. I earned £80 per month.
No minimum wage.
Current wage for the same job £15,000 per year

Only the middle class and very few working class went to university. Oxford and Cambridge were accessed through external exams that most working class people did not even know about - by the time you did UCAS it was too late for there.
I didn't know a single person in the 80s who owned their own home apart from middle class people live the GP or teacher. And a smaller proportion of people owned their home in the 80s than do now.

The OU was free too.

FaFoutis I hear young people complaining all the time that older people had it far easier than them.

@marymarkle

Fully agree about the upper echelons of society encouraging us against each other. Not just generations, but race, even Brexiteer/Remainer. As long as nobody is looking at them. I think some media groups are very complicit in this.

Regardless of which side of Brexit people sit on, I find it shocking that so little interest is paid to how certain vocal politicians' aims benefit them personally. I mean, I'm sure very wealthy people with investments that would benefit immensely from London becoming a 'singapore-on-the-thames' totally have the lower and middle classes' interests at heart...

FaFoutis No it was not. That was something people campaigned about at the time. Because it was mostly working class people accessing the OU and they had to pay.

Do you know young kids are having to rent rooms to share because London rents are so expensive? In the 80s you could buy a house on one salary. You simply cannot slid that in most parts of the country anymore.

Yes in the late 80s / early 90s there was a recession, interest rates show up and people lost their homes - my parents included. The same happened after the financial crash in 2008 albeit interest rates were kept low to avoid a much larger longer recession than we would have faced.

Kids are now incurring debt of at least 30k to go to university which was free / supported by grants in the 80s. Never before have young people had so much debt before they start out.

OP you decided to leave London because you couldn't rent anywhere nice. Everyone faces that issue now. I ended up buying at the tender age of 38. Buying houses just isn't going to be possible for most people anymore.

"low house prices but wages were very very low as well"

Houses were far more achievable when earning the average salary. Now they are not.

Only a small percentage went to uni because only a small % of jobs had a degree as a barrier to entry. Now 25% of occupations have degrees as essential prior to entry and 35% of them are informal barriers.

Many jobs actually provided on the job training that people are now expected to complete and pay for themselves, and also complete internships and work experience ( something unheard of then).

I did some temporary jobs. It involved waiting in a queue outside the office in the morning and you were allocated a job for that day. We were transported in a mini bus and collected later that day. So you could spend a couple of hours on the bus each day.

*kirinm" Yes and it is a disgrace.
I left London not because I could not afford to rent anywhere nice, but because I was paying a lot to rent rooms in shared shitholes. Not just not nice.

houses were far more achievable when earning the average salary

But that means 1/2 the working population did not earn an average salary.

I don’t think anyone I knew at the time was on an average salary. That was for people in their 40s

I did those jobs for a bit of being transported in a minibus to factories. It was places in the middle of nowhere that could not get enough local people as populations were so low, so we were bussed in from nearby local towns/cities.

I just think its different - there are similar challenges but things have shifted - I do agree education has been fucked up and the costs astronomical and for less gain now as well - its almost a deminimis for any job including shop work.

But I also think there is a mindset that needs to be challenged and that is to get on you have to stand on those beneath you and there is no consideration for those that leg you up. The way younger managers both speak to and treat workers young and old is appalling and very demoralising and then they wonder at the "work ethic" but if you are treated like shit what do you owe them??

I think the intergeneration issue is around tolerance and that is a problem in many areas not just intergeneration

Modern times being difficult doesn’t take away from when other times were a struggle. It’s perfectly possible for two different generations to have their own unique struggles and both still be valid. If a young person is struggling to find full time, permanent employment and can’t get on the property ladder in 2019 it doesn’t mean the difficulty of the 1980s is now void in comparison.
I think the 80s and 00s are like apples and oranges in terms of comparison, some things were/are easier in both periods but that doesn’t make them any less of an overall struggle for those affected by the hard times of either.

It could go on forever…don’t like the race riots of the 60s? well at least you weren’t being blown up and living on rations in the 40s! Struggling with the economy in the 30s? well at least you now have indoor plumbing and didn’t chuck your shit out of the window like in my day! Etc etc.

It's perfectly possible to acknowledge the issues today’s young people face without it taking away from the difficulties of your generation. Basically, have compassion…simple!

*Here's a song (okay, from 2008 but still fairly modern) about this stuff:

Thatcher Fucked the Kids - Frank Turner*

Would that be grandson of Sir (Paternal) as well as a Baron (Maternal) grandfathers, son of investment banker, privately educated, Eton and LSE graduate; Frank Turner by any chance? Yeah, I'm not gonna take any grandstanding virtue signalling from someone with a CV like that.

"And a smaller proportion of people owned their home in the 80s than do now"

Except two thirds of baby boomers owned their own home by the time they were 30.

42% of millenials do.

So talking from your narrow level of experience is incorrect.

i think each generation has its own struggles, this one has it harder in some ways and easier in others.
I left school in the late 70's started a job the following monday at 16.i earnt 25 pounds a week.
(fares were cheap as got under 16's for a long time!) getting a job is a lot harder now.
housing, peoples expectations are a lot higher. these days,.
i think the worst hit generation was the one who lived through the 1st world war/ depression and then another war.

The proportion of people owning houses then was far far lower than now. It started to rise with the sell off of council houses as people bought their council house. These were people who in the main have struggled to get a mortgage in the early 80s in an ordinary house.

Things are getting worse for the poorest. And with coming robotics, things are going to get much worse for the middle class.
But if things are going to get better we need old fashioned unions and to unite together. As long as you blame individuals, nothing will change.

"Yeah, I'm not gonna take any grandstanding virtue signalling from someone with a CV like that."

Ad hominem attacks don't actually make his point less valid.

Critical thinking fail.

"I don’t think anyone I knew at the time was on an average salary. That was for people in their 40s"

Lets repeat the statistic.

Two thirds of baby boomers (66.66% percent) owned their own home by the time they were 30.

Your experience is narrow and not reflective of the actual time.

Boris You are choosing the statistics that suit you. I am talking about overall home ownership. You are not even saying what years you are talking about or who counts as baby boomers. If you are talking about those born between 1946 and 1964, then you are saying by 1994 two thirds owned their own home. Way outside the time frame I am talking about.

The 1990s were a time of boom when economically life was better and home ownership rose. Things have got worse again. And it is increasingly feeling like the early 1980s with a new face.