To think it’s really shitty to expect someone to work unpaid overtime...

[OnesieWarrior]

and then dock their pay when they’re sick?

My contracted hours are 9-6. I arrive early every day, I never take an hour’s lunch, my boss decides he wants lunch which I go out and get for him, I buy my own at the same time, and scoff it at my desk. I stop working for 20 minutes tops. I work late almost every day too.
This month I have worked 20 hours overtime- the equivalent of 2.5 working days, for which I will not be paid.
I was off sick for 2 days with norovirus. My boss has deducted those two days from my wages this month.
I spoke to my colleagues about, they all just shrugged and said “that’s what it’s like here” “this is how it is... you can’t clock watch.” They all know it’s completely crap, but nobody says or does anything about it.

AIBU to think that’s absolute bullshit?

Yes it’s bullshit. Find another job if you csn

So stop all overtime immediately and start taking proper lunches.

well don't arrive early and take your lunch and look for a new job. They're clearly a crap company to work for.

Just do your contracted hours going forward?
If my team come in early/stay late they can’t automatically claim overtime or toil-this has to be agreed in advance and be for a business reason (I’d like flexi time, but they don’t allow it).
I do sometimes do additional hours if it suits me but don’t expect anything for it-but we do get full sick pay.
If they want to be petty about sick pay then do your exact hours and take your lunch, don’t be a martyr to it-it won’t get you anywhere, even if it is the culture to work longer.

So you can't clock watch, but your boss can do the equivalent when you're shit? It's bullshit. If at all possible, I'd find another job and leave.

Why on earth do you do all those extra hours all the time?

Sick not shit! Weird autocorrect.

You can report to the National Minimum Wage team? This doesn't sound right at all.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/pay-and-work-rights-complaints

It’s shit isn’t it. I was employed on zero hours contract in NHS. Absolutely worked more hours than paid for (paid by day). Would have been unsafe for patients had I walked out when it was 5.
Yet bank holiday pay - zero. Sick pay - zero

I felt like the only poor sod who dreaded May and all those bank holidays as my monthly pay packet would be down.

Sorry you’re being taken advantage of. I hope you get some kind of resolution from your idiot boss

Just work your contracted hours.

Anyone who does regular unpaid overtime without claiming for it or without being compensated by their employer is being taken for a ride.

I have worked in places (big, multinationals) where we were understaffed and working to very close deadlines. I came in for 9, took my full lunch and left at 5:30 regardless. I politely made it clear that management continuing to understaff the team would not become my problem. They ended up hiring two more staff members.

If people continue to pick up the slack for no pay/ time in lieu etc there’s no impetus for the employer to fix the situation in the first place.

It's utter crap but there are a lot of firms like this.

Stop working late and stop working through your lunches.

Why should you give them your time for free when they don't pay you for being off sick?

Arrive at 8.55 in future, walk around for a bit or take a book if needed.

Lunch break- you have errands, even if you make them up. Go sit in the library or browse shops if there's anything nearby. Leave on time.

If you do this for a week you'll reset your own boundaries.

Stop picking up boss lunch during your unpaid lunch break, mention you have a personal chore during your lunch break so if you still need to do that work job, what time would suit? Set the expectation that you don't do work in your lunch hour. Take in a sandwich do it's clear you're not buying lunch out, etc.

The only one who can reset this situation is YOU. Your employer will take everything you willingly give and still expect more, you're letting them.

Well they can't make you work late if you are contracted to those hours and you are legally entitled to a break, can't remember how long a break though.

Did you actually say to your boss, "I worked 20 extra hours, why is my pay being docked for two pays sick?"

Just work to rule, take your full lunch and leave at 5.

In my industry (and lots of others) it's absolutely the norm to work overtime for free.

However, it has to work both ways. Docking your pay for sick days is not honouring that implicit deal.

Just work your contracted hours from now on. Not a second more.

Why go in early, work once you’ve clocked off and not take a full lunch if you don’t get paid?

Every company I’ve worked for would be exactly the same. You choose to do those extra hours, you are not contracted to do them so you won’t be paid, unless your contract says you do or you’ve been asked to do them and told you will be paid?

Let me guess OP you work for Admiral !

I wondered this too. I'm contracted 37.5 hours a week but often do a Lot more - a lot of it is scheduled in with meetings to fit around clients before the official working day and then after 5pm. I once mentioned it and my boss to me 'youre paid X amount to get the job done'. However when I had a day off (And actually did a fair amount of work at home) it was deducted. Surely if I could do my job in 4 hours I should get paid for 'doing the job'.

I think I would have to point out that I'd worked 20 hours unpaid, when my pay was docked. I'd also make it clear that if they want to be petty my goodwill would vanish regarding doing extra hours.

Time to start working your contracted hours.

I found myself in similar circumstances, boss being a dick about me having to leave early one night (my car was broken)
When I started to leave on time rather than staying on 20mins some nights, often longer, he couldn’t say anything but it did give me a petty sense of revenge. So you take your full hour at lunchtime, stop fetching him sandwiches in your lunch break and leave work on time.
Easier than trying to find another job .

I think I am going to look for something else. I'm on a FTC and originally I said I'd be interested in the permanent position but I don't think that's the case now.

Nobody has ever been paid overtime in the company. We are all asked to sign the opt-out form, in the contract it says something like "employees are expected to be flexible with regard to working outside contracted hours" or something like that.

I just feel completely demoralised and undervalued. The boss is the kind of guy who gets pissed off if there's a typo in an email, if you take a few seconds too long to do something... everything has to be done perfectly, the first time, straight away and quickly. I swear to god my blood pressure rises the moment he walks through the door.

I get in early because I have to set up his office in the morning and he gets pissed off if I have to do it around him.

Last week my tube was held up one morning and I walked through the door at 9:02. He rang me at 9:01 to see where I was.

Your employers are shits and what they are doing is possibly not legal. Have a look at your contract etc, see if you are entitled to sick pay. And start looking for another job.
I appreciate that not everyone feels able to tell an exploitative employer to fuck off (if you would struggle to find another job, for instance) but the more people who refuse to be treated like shit, the better.

I run a business. Our employees are contracted 9-5. One of my staff regularly comes in at 8 (after school drop off) and therefore when she needs to leave early for a school event, or a Dr appointment, we just allow that.

Equally, she chooses those hours so if she decides to take a day off and say “well I’ve worked longer” I wouldn’t be very impressed.

My contract says statutory sick pay only. And you don't get that til you've been off more than 3 days.

My last FTC finished at the end of last September, this is the first sniff of a job I've had since then. One of my colleagues (who now works part time and from home) said it's always been like that, overtime and no lunch, and he'll never agree to pay overtime in a million years. My argument was that just because he's always taken the piss in the past doesn't mean he should be allowed to continue. But everyone else is all shruggy and "that's how it is" about it so I end up feeling like I'm the one with a crappy attitude.