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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think it’s really shitty to expect someone to work unpaid overtime...

58 replies

OnesieWarrior · 31/01/2019 22:40

and then dock their pay when they’re sick?

My contracted hours are 9-6. I arrive early every day, I never take an hour’s lunch, my boss decides he wants lunch which I go out and get for him, I buy my own at the same time, and scoff it at my desk. I stop working for 20 minutes tops. I work late almost every day too.
This month I have worked 20 hours overtime- the equivalent of 2.5 working days, for which I will not be paid.
I was off sick for 2 days with norovirus. My boss has deducted those two days from my wages this month.
I spoke to my colleagues about, they all just shrugged and said “that’s what it’s like here” “this is how it is... you can’t clock watch.” They all know it’s completely crap, but nobody says or does anything about it.

AIBU to think that’s absolute bullshit?

OP posts:
julensaor · 31/01/2019 23:32

But you have to speak up here. I assume you are contracted, was there no stipulation on overtime in the contract? There must have been some mention of it? I had a similar situation years ago where overtime hours were recognised but never paid fully for. It got my ire up and I spoke to the boss and said I just won't do a second over my times unless I get time back in wages or holidays. You need to reread your contract. Obviously he feels comfortable docking your wages over 2 days sick leave, because it is catered for within the contract. If there is no official documentation, set yourself free and get another job as soon as you can.

ScreamingValenta · 31/01/2019 23:32

Manage-to-rule = work-to-rule.

Original poster
OnesieWarrior · 31/01/2019 23:44

In the contract it says:

Hours of Work
You will work 9am - 6pm Monday to Friday, with additional hours as required for the needs of the business.

Sick Payment
You are entitled to payment for days not worked due to sickness at the statutory sick rate (SSP) only, subject to eligibility.

Normal Hours of Work

  • You may be required to work additional hours as required for the needs of the business
-If your salary is calculated on an annual basis, you are not entitled to any additional pay for overtime. Employees are expected to be co-operative in working outside their contracted hours if required by the Company.
OP posts:
Surfingtheweb · 31/01/2019 23:46

Do you have a hr team? I'd point out the hours of worked & ask for my pay back. Also have a good read of your contract & speak to ACAS. A similar thing happened to me once & the company gave me my money back after I told them what ACAS said.

oldowlgirl · 31/01/2019 23:52

You need to look for a new job & agree with the other posters re only working your contracted hours - stop doing the overtime. I work a lot of hours, but my employer is flexible, so if it's not 2 way, then you really do need to find something else. Good luck!

Original poster
OnesieWarrior · 31/01/2019 23:53

No HR team. It's a very small company. You also have to answer a bunch of insanely personal questions on a questionnaire before he's even interviewed you... but I was desperate for a job at the time, so I took it!

OP posts:
QuietContraryMary · 31/01/2019 23:56

How much are you paid? In well-paid positions overtime is normal. The sick pay deduction is not nice, but again it does depend what your real rate of way of pay is.

If it's anywhere close to NMW, they should FOAD, however.

ivykaty44 · 31/01/2019 23:57

You may be required to work additional hours as required for the needs of the business

We want you to work for free during those hours and feel if we pop this down in your contract you’ll just do it....lol

If the amount of hours take you under minimum wage, regardless of it being in your contract, it’s illegal and you can report the company

Magenta46 · 31/01/2019 23:58

I'm docked a half hour break I never had the time to take. I now sit in my car and read a book or watch funny cats on youtube . I've never been called up about it. Work gets done ,everyone's happy.
I'd contact ACAS if I were you.

Original poster
OnesieWarrior · 01/02/2019 00:00

I'm paid higher than the national average but not a fortune. I doubt the overtime puts it below NMW though.

Mine isn't a big-bucks, high-flying executive job. I'm a PA. I'm nowhere near the top salary some PAs make though, and certainly nowhere near the figure he's prepared to pay for the perfect on paper candidate.

OP posts:
percypeppers · 01/02/2019 00:05

I had a feeling you were a PA.....

He sounds like a charmer. No more unpaid overtime from you going forwards. Look for something else and vote with your feet. There are better PA jobs out there (not many mind you!).

Tinkerbell89 · 01/02/2019 00:06

Stop working overtime and play to the rule book of what's legal. If they ask you to do overtime they much pay you, if you choose to just work through lunch or stay on that's on you they won't turn down free work. They can't sack you for refusing to work overtime if they request it. Check your contract on whether they pay sick pay if they don't they can deduct it. Unfortunately you can't just choose to work overtime and be paid sick in exchange without checking if that's ok before doing the overtime

Original poster
OnesieWarrior · 01/02/2019 00:09

@percypeppers that's the thing- my CV is quite jumpy so it's getting harder and harder to find a new job. Took me 2 and a half months to find this one...

@Tinkerbell89 I posted the wording of my contract up thread- it literally says "Employees are expected to be co-operative in working outside their contracted hours if required by the Company"

OP posts:
percypeppers · 01/02/2019 00:22

@OnesieWarrior I totally understand! I was a PA for just over ten years. I had some great jobs but some very difficult bosses and ended up moving about a bit. It all just got a bit too stressful in the end and I retrained. Now work in the NHS. I don't regret it one bit.

How old are you? Mid twenties to mid thirties seem to be the prime age for PAs. It was for me! Towards the end, I just didn't think I was valued for my experience. The majority of bosses want a couple of years experience and a pretty face.

Lots of PAs move frequently because the job can be such a pain in the arse.

Guineapiglet345 · 01/02/2019 00:30

It’s because of companies like this that I now only work my contracted hours and take my full lunch, if I’m ill I always take an extra day off to make sure I’m properly better before I go back and I book my dentist appointments during working hours.

I currently work for a big national company that likes to shout about how much they care about people, you’d never know it by the way they treat their employees.

StoppinBy · 01/02/2019 00:42

I can't see in that wording where it says that you will not be paid for the extra hours?

Are you on a salary? If you are on a salary then they can't dock your pay for sick days as the contract is to pay you a certain amount, averaged out over the year in however many pays you get.

Are you actually putting in your hours every week so you are claiming overtime? I ask that as if you are not then you need to start doing so, they wont pay you for the extra hours if you don't claim the extra hours. They will of course deduct if they can to save them an expense.

If you are expected to collect his lunch I would be buying at the start of your lunch break then bringing it back once you have finished your allotted lunch break time, doing his errands is not something you should be doing in your lunch break anyway, it's nice to do it occasionally for someone that you know appreciates it but sounds like your boss is taking the mickey.

If you start at 9 then get there at 9, if he wants his stuff set up when he gets there he can pay you to come in a bit early or he can start a bit later.

mathanxiety · 01/02/2019 01:04

I had a contract like this in the US back in the late 80s. It sucked, and there was no incentive for the owner/manager to manage the business better when he could have people working all hours finishing tasks that he had designed poorly, doing non-productive stuff that didn't contribute to the bottom line, and using the company as an environment for willy waving on his part. It was of course counter productive as employee turnover was high and training new victims sucked time and resources. But the owner liked the feeling of having power over others.

The wording of your contract means you are basically screwed. it is set up so he can have his cake and eat it too.

Look for another job immediately.

A question for you @OnesieWarrior:
What were the insanely personal questions you had to answer before getting an interview?

There may well be a discrimination case there.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 01/02/2019 01:08

Wow, your boss treats you like a dogsbody, eh?
I'd definitely look for a new job!

Original poster
OnesieWarrior · 01/02/2019 07:13

@mathanxiety it was a Proust questionnaire so things like
What is your greatest fear?
What do you dislike most about your appearance?
What is the trait you most deplore in yourself?
How would you like to die?

OP posts:
Original poster
OnesieWarrior · 01/02/2019 07:20

@StoppinBy

"-If your salary is calculated on an annual basis, you are not entitled to any additional pay for overtime."

"You are entitled to payment for days not worked due to sickness at the statutory sick rate (SSP) only, subject to eligibility. "

So because I was only off for two days I got nothing.

OP posts:
Polarbearflavour · 01/02/2019 09:28

Sounds like a crap job!

I do my hours, no more. I’ve never worked unpaid overtime.

PoutySprout · 01/02/2019 09:31

Let me guess OP you work for Admiral

I’d be amazed if this was happening at Admiral.

Bluesmartiesarebest · 01/02/2019 09:38

Now that you realise how crap this job is you need to stop working overtime. Nobody will die if you leave on time and the business won’t usually go bankrupt if an email waits until the next day.

Deadbudgie · 01/02/2019 09:44

Until I saw you catch the tube wondered whether you worked in our office! Divide your pay by number of hours worked to make sure you’re getting paid minimum wage.

AlwaysSunnyInLiverpool · 01/02/2019 09:44

OP, you can't change your office culture, esp if it's coming from above.

you need to take back the only control you have - STOP doing these unapproved-for-overtime-or-TOIL hours. THAT is the only "button" you can hit here, short of quitting.

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