Spelling and Punctuation

[PooleySpooley]

This 500 words competition on Radio 2 for kids

Great - BUT the “spelling, grammar and punctuation don’t matter” thing.

I get why they do it, but this seems to be creeping in a lot more these days and AIBU to think actually they do matter and are an important part of our language?!

YANBU. You only have to look at the poor SPaG all over MN to realise what a huge issue it is.

It makes me sad that correct teaching of our language is no longer deemed important

I agree. I'm perhaps biased as an English Grad but it is driving me insane to see so many SUPPOSEDLY professionally written "things" articles, ads, even magazines and books ffs! Littered with spag errors!

And this is where it starts.

I can understand - to a degree - children not losing marks for spag errors in homework or competitions relating to maths or science or indeed any non "English as a subject" writing but for English exams and writing competitions?! No! Utterly ridiculous.

Plus it does a disservice to those children who DO make the effort to learn and use English correctly.

I'd argue that getting kids excited about what they're writing, and content, is more important than SPaG at that age. Then get down to SPaG, if you absolutely have to.

If you can communicate ideas effectively, does it really matter if they're perfectly presented?

Fantastic. My creative, book loving, intelligent, very dyslexic daughter might have the tiniest chance of having a level playing field in one creative writing task. Stark contrast to the daily mountains she has to climb at school, efforts wholely unrecognised.

I am an english grad too and this makes me sad.

Plus it does a disservice to those children who DO make the effort to learn and use English correctly

Totally - unless SEN, Dyslexic etc.

Why can't creative but compromised kids get their parents or teachers to proof read before submission?

I'd argue that getting kids excited about what they're writing, and content, is more important than SPaG at that age.

But the competition is up to age 13. SPaG surely is important by then?

I'm an English grad too and I think it's brilliant. The competition is about creative writing, not spelling and punctuation.

But surely when learning a subject you have to learn the rules.

Spelling and grammar are the scaffolding on which English is built.

I think it’s fine for the purpose of this competition, which is about story telling. A child with an excellent imagination and good storytelling skills shouldn’t lose out because they’re poor spellers.

All writers have editors for that stuff!

Dyslexia and learning difficulties taken into account, of course.

We are told as teachers that we are all "teachers of literacy", even if not teaching a language-based subject (I teach science).

However, they aren't penalised for incorrect SPAG, even of keywords, as long as the meaning is clear. Which makes sense as your understanding of science is what matters in those exams and it would be unfair for a poor speller to be penalised across the board.

But the competition is up to age 13. SPaG surely is important by then?

Maybe so, but it also starts at age 5.

Spelling and grammar are the scaffolding on which English is built.

Problem is, as a language we're not especially consistent with either.

It’s a competition for children and as a primary and SEN teacher I agree that spelling shouldn’t matter when the aim is to inspire children to write creatively. IN THIS INSTANCE It’s ideas and language that matter not spag. I’ve taught children who were incredibly gifted at writing but couldn’t spell or remember the past tense of swim but their subtle use of metaphor made me tearful in its beauty. Why should we hold these children back?

Also bear in mind that neither Jane Austen not Ernest Hemingway could spell for shit. Thank goodness that isn’t what their writing was judged on!

Also bear in mind that neither Jane Austen not Ernest Hemingway could spell for shit. Thank goodness that isn’t what their writing was judged on!

And don't forget Shakspere wasn't consistent in his spelling and literally made up words.

Also bear in mind that neither Jane Austen not Ernest Hemingway could spell for shit. Thank goodness that isn’t what their writing was judged on

Hmm but most people write on computers which actually have spelling and granmar checkers.

I don't have kids so I'm unfamiliar with this sort of child competitive landscape, but are there similar allowances for children with dyscalculia in maths competitions? And children with physical disabilities in sports competitions? That's a genuine question, just in case it's not clear, I honestly don't know.

Hmm but most people write on computers which actually have spelling and granmar checkers

Last time I used a computer the grammar checker didn't like a lot of my grammatically sound sentences.
And a spell checker is great, until you get to homophones, or you type a word that isn't phonically plausible using phonics and the computer doesn't know wtf you're trying to type.

Hmm but most people write on computers which actually have spelling and granmar checkers

Grammar checkers on computers are worse than useless. You must have encountered the nonsensical suggestions they come up with. And using a grammar checker doesn’t exhibit that a child actually knows the rules.

When you're reading, correct punctuation provides the emphasis and breakpoints needed to make sense of what you are reading. Good grammar is essential to a piece of writing making sense, poor grammar is jarring.

SPaG assessment needs to be age appropriate, but I don't think any aspect can - or ought to - be discounted. I struggled with SPaG, hated the amount of work I had to do and I'm still not great, but I can see the importance of SPaG being marked. SEN must be taken into account though, how you do that appropriately for a competition is a more difficult question.

Children who are passionate about reading and writing tend to pick up correct spelling and grammar just through exposure. It's the children who aren't interested that struggle, and competitions like this could be a way to engage them in a way 'traditional' grammar and spelling teaching might not.

From a writer's perspective, having a good story to tell is more important than telling it with proper spelling and grammar. I'm a book editor and I will take a good story riddled with errors any day over a turgid piece of prose that has perfect spelling and grammar. The latter is so much harder to fix.

You can’t enter a music competition without learning to play the instrument properly.

I love writing, I am from a family of writers.

My father made me write thank you letters every Christmas and made me do a rough copy and then made me rewrite the letter until it was perfect. It was shit but it hasn’t put me off writing.