#shameonyouwarwick

[smcbride]

Warwick Police haven't prosecuted anyone for these vile rape threats and Warwick uni are now letting (some of?) the perpetrators back in to study at the same university alongside those they discussed threatening to rape.

Would you be happy sending your child here?

Warwick students suspended over rape threats allowed to return earlyly*_

Appeal panel - not disciplinary

The letter from the MP for the neighbouring constituency was probably the last straw

The MP, Matt Western, happens to be the partner of the Head of the History department at Warwick. Interesting in all this to see so many academic departments making statements critical of the management, and drawing in external pressures.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Western

The MP, Matt Western, happens to be the partner of the Head of the History department

The interconnectedness of the British middle classes strikes again.

Which makes this story all the more devastating for the university:

theboar.org/2019/02/warwick-group-history-refuse-teach/

She's basically saying that (a) she won't have them back and (b) if they were to come back, staff would refuse to teach them and she wouldn't lift a finger. "I think we need to hear from the administration how they imagine this is going to work".

How on earth does a successful university get to a state of dysfunction in which senior academics feel their only option is to not merely park their tanks on the VC's lawn, but to invite media over to watch them shelling the VC's office?

Ben C was never going back anyway, these are the left over students..

People can slag off the VC now but to be honest people would have criticised him for not doing anything. Yes it was reactive but the Uni has sucked it up and dealt with it.

Hopefully everyone can move forward positively, including Warwick which is a great Uni with good staff and students.

Warwick will Anne d their procedures etc and it’ll turn this around hopefully and become more of a leader in stamping out those behaviours in the future.

Everyone can panic over brexit now 🙄 and social media can go into a frenzy over that now as the clock ticks down,

How on earth does a successful university get to a state of dysfunction in which senior academics feel their only option is to not merely park their tanks on the VC's lawn, but to invite media over to watch them shelling the VC's office?

I know, whatever's behind it, it's an object lesson in how to lose the trust of your workforce. And it's the culture clash that inevitably exists in universities between academics and management starkly exposed. I had heard from people at Warwick that the current senior management regime was a significant improvement on the last lot. Make of that what you will!

Hopefully everyone can move forward positively, including Warwick which is a great Uni with good staff and students.

Hmm, still not keen on my DD applying there next year. I know there are some stupid boys men at all unis but how they've dealt with this has been atrocious.

Yes I get you don’t want your daughter to go, fortunately for Warwick plenty will apply still. They’ll be a lot of work now on improving things, ironically more so than other Unis. My daughter can attend there but it would be her choice, not mine.

I do wonder if this was and oxbridge Uni whether people would still feel as strongly about their children not attending?

the whole thing is a sad mess but actually a positive outcome. The message needs to be hammered home that extreme misogyny is not ok, will not be minimised and there are proper consequences for being a nasty knob.

I do wonder if this was and oxbridge Uni whether people would still feel as strongly about their children not attending?

People make the Oxford/Cambridge decision on pretty flimsy grounds. Similarly choosing between Warwick, Durham, St Andrews and Bristol is not terribly scientific. Small marginal differences. When I ask students why they chose us rather than our obvious competitors it's rarely more than gut feel.

For anyone applying, my daughter is there and has only ever had positive experiences. She is having a great time.

I wouldn't let it put you off. You get a minority of horrible twats at every university.

It'd be interesting to know how the VC's conversation with the students went. My guess is rather in the manner of "you've got a nice business here, be a shame if it caught fire wouldn't it?". "Well, you can come back, but your head of department has said that the staff will refuse to teach you, and won't support disciplinary action...I suppose I could try forcing staff to teach you at the threat of dismissal...but then the UCU will call for a campus-wide strike and get it...and then there's the daily protests as you come onto campus...I suppose I could try getting the police to escort you..." and so on.

Which is vaguely amusing to visualise, but all rather unsatisfactory. A clear-cut expulsion would have been better all around. Any legal process could have been played out to the end, and the whole matter closed. What happens if the students apply to re-enter the university in future years? What happens if the students claim that they withdrew under duress, or without sufficient advice as to the consequences?

I sigh quite often, it's a form of asthma. I'd be chasing a lawyer if I'd been sacked for it.

I suspect the conversation from VC to the shitbags was more along the lines of - we need to seriously think about YOUR safety on campus and therefore unfortunately...
still I am so pleased at the outcome - now the law needs to change so this kind of thing IS seen as a hate crime treated seriously and punishable otherwise it will most definitely keep happening

Sorry reflectebt I hadn’t read your post properly before posting - I agree totally - the change has come about via media/academic/MP outrage instead of genuine concern for the psychological affect on victims

The VC's statement is very carefully worded to avoid saying who made the decision for them not to return. I suspect that the two young men realised they would be social pariahs at Warwick and have decided not to come back.

I suspect he may also have been a little worried about his job....

In the VC's first statement he stated that there was a threat of legal action from the appellants, my question is (and I'm sure someone on here can enlighten me!) on what grounds could the appellants take legal action against the University? Surely, any University has the right to refuse to have anyone in the University? Could a Court demand they accept/re-admit someone and on what grounds? Is there not the catch-all 'bringing the University into disrepute' that would/could cover this?

Like others I think the ones who appealed to be allowed to return and were successful in the appeal have decided themselves to withdraw rather than the VC actually rescinding the decision, he doesn't seem to have the courage to do so.

The University have behaved appallingly throughout all of this, firm decisive action was called for and any threats of legal action should have been met with "Bring it on, see you in Court". The case would (I believe) have been in a Civil Court, if it ever got that far as I can't see any grounds for legal redress, and open to the Press and Public.

One thing that does still need addressing and mustn't be forgotten is the treatment of the complainants and the questioning of them regarding their sexual history, there is NO justification for that and it must NEVER be repeated.

yes I would also like to know what actual legal action or threat was made by the parents of those boys to which the VC referred in his first letter which made the university so unable to take the decision to expel/exclude them?

I've been reading this thread for a few days. I'm sad that my lovely DS1 is in his third year at Warwick, the same year group as these men and their victims. He's currently going out with a third year history student and knows one of the young women involved. I'm glad to say he is a member of one of the student societies that is organising a protest tomorrow.

There was obviously no thought involved in suspending them for one year which put them right back in sync with those students doing a year abroad. I'm glad some of the academics are siding with the women over the administration.

DS has had a great time at Warwick, however, and if anything, this debacle and intense scrutiny should make their welfare and disciplinary processes much better in future.

I'm so pleased to hear that the protest is still going ahead tomorrow.
I imagine it is not easy standing up against this kind of thing when you are right in the middle of it and there are many others around you who may think these men have done nothing worse than many before them

• you have obviously done a great job EllenJanesthickerknickers!

Anyone can threaten anyone with legal action. The appeals panel (again made up of student union reps/academic and managers - including women) made the decision. I guess the chat students would have some legal redress if the Uni suddenly says the appeals decision didn’t stand. Doesn’t make it all right but that’s the real world for you.

Aside from the victims needs (and please believe me I do sympathise with them totally) Spare a thought for the good staff at Warwick (there are many - including those in management, who are now dealing with this huge problem (I’m bias as my OH works there and feel I need to defend him and his colleagues) There are vile comments/personal comments being made about people who were part of the process and that is having consequences now. Being called rapists/rape apologisers and worse. You may say “ well the Uni and those people should have thorough of that earlier” or “it’s about the women victims involved (and it is about them I don’t disagree) but I can tell you that it’s getting nasty now - by the people who are so called against harassment/bullying and hate speech.

Warwick will put this right, give them a chance to do that but I’m sure whatever they do now it won’t be good enough.

I'm so glad they're not returning. It's depressing that the big cheeses at Warwick felt it was fine for them to come back after a year, but so heartening that students, staff, media coverage and the petition seem to have been enough to reverse that decision.

I'm sure there are lots of good staff at Warwick - no one has ever suggested otherwise. In fact several students and parents of students have testified to what a great place it is.

My goats been about management (who’s being vilified now by many and clumped into the same group as the bloody students who made the comments) positives seem to be focussed on academics in this thread, maybe I’ve missed some? I just know a little moe about what’s going on and it gets my blood boiling when I read some things that have been said. I’m trotting on now and coming off this thread. and just live outside of the twitter sphere and wait for the facts to emerge.