To think I’m suffering ageism at 31?

[BreastSideStory]

I’m having a compete career change, studying for an MSc and applying for graduate schemes (recommended route to become qualified).
I have applied for around 16 different grad schemes and have been invited to only 1 interview. My CV is impeccable, I have over 10 years corporate experience (in an unrelated field but many of the skills are transferable).
I’m currently top of my class receiving high distinctions in all modules.
Yet I cannot seem to get an apprenticeship or grad scheme place

I went to one assessment day for a well known company, 8 of us there. A mixture of presenting, interviews and group work. I did well in all areas and even went for drinks afterwards with some of the staff. I’m bubbly and sociable so I just dont understand why I am not progressing?

It’s not my personality because I’m being rejected by a lot of companies at the first hurdle (before they’ve met me) and when I’ve requested feedback they’ve all replied saying I’m an extremely strong candidate but not for them right now.

The only thing I can think is holding me back is my age. I’m 31 (though I’m told regularly I look quite a bit younger) and the average grad applicant age is around 23/24 yrs old.
I was the oldest person on the recent assessment day by 8 years.

Does this really happen in this day and age? People discriminating against applicants because they’re a lot older than the others?

I’m feeling so down. Currently working on my thesis in the library and holding back tears

Has anyone else experienced this or has any advice?

In my early 30s I struggled to even get interviews for permanent positions, I had no problem getting contractor roles though. I have a strong suspicion it was because I was a 30 something female. Less risk to companies taking me on as a contractor.

@YahBasic that’s completely fair and understandable, which is why I’m applying for all the internships and work experience opportunities I can.

I have, however, just found out that a 23yo on my course who was at the assessment day with me got the job. She’s a nice girl but has zero experience and not particularly doing well on the degree. Fuck.

@soulrider urghhh that’s not filling me with confidence

That's so shit :-(

What sort of feedback are they giving you?

I just had a look at what the RICS is doing and they have an initiative with Women in Property...

RICS

Maybe check out your local WiP and get networking a bit.

See how you get on with leaving off dates, just putting your degree down etc.

Keep plugging away, hopefully more spots will open up over the next couple of months as things become more stable. Grads often drop out of positions too, so spits can open up later than you think.

Applying for grad schemes can be a full-time job, trying to tailor applications, doing video assessments etc.

It's so fucking crap that a whole load of false assumptions about you (that you won't be happy to work hard, that you'll get pregnant etc) are undermining your prospects like this in 2019.

That is shit.

@WomanWithAltitude none yet. The assessment day feedback will be given by the 3rd week in February apparently.
My other applications were simply rejected before they met me... but not before they subjected me to psychometric testing and situational judgement tests all of which I passed
I spent weeks completing the various stages of the applications, passing them, but then being rejected before being offered an interview. I feel like it’s been such a waste of my time

I was just going to suggest networking. What about LinkedIn?

Also consider related areas in bigger companies that will normally give you the option to move across.

Areas like fire risk are getting huge, but not so many people seem interested so there are fewer applicants. Many consultancy firms often the opportunity to transfer after a year or two. Could be a last option.

@Hugglessnuggles I’m on LinkedIn, but without relevant experience to input I'm not showing up on the industry searches

@YahBasic thank you, I’ll defintely consider other options

@Whatdoyouknowwhenyouknownowt I’ll have a look at the RICS link now. Thank you

@Whatdoyouknowwhenyouknownowt it says national sponsors Savills 😂😂 YEAH RIGHT! Inviting 1 woman to their regional assessment day! Laughable!

Yes, one of my imaginary letters to the RICS was a moan about the big companies having a load of duff in their graduate brochures about diversity...

I think JLLs was particularly galling.

I am aiming to become a chartered surveyor

The surveyor industry in Birmingham isn't doing too well.... I know a few, hiring is all quite tight at the moment. Brexit isn't helping, plus property in Birmingham is a bit up and down.

I'd definitely look at applying in London. There's more schemes there, although it won't help with the Brexit situation.

Sadly you probably also are hitting some barriers because you're less likely to be able to work extended hours and give your all to career, and a lot of firms use grads for those type of projects. The grads put the hard hours in under the experienced surveyors so more projects get done!

I hope you get the chance you're looking for. Apply as widely as you can so you give yourself the best chance to succeed!

Most grad schemes don't want lots of experience, as pp said they want to be able to mould someone.

This. I'm an ex grad schemer myself, now an executive and both a hiring manager and an executive coach to some of our grads.

It's not typical for the reason mentioned above - but a disproportionately high number of my stellar performers have been older than average at hiring.

Do you get asked about this when you apply? I realise it's tricky to go there due to equality legislation, but I think it may be a good thing to bring it up.

I always find some way of indirectly asking "will you pose a problem to your 25-year-old direct boss who may be less mature than you but will know more about the job, or are you smart enough to have figured out that you play along for two years and, due to your vastly greater experience, will easily catch up with and overtake them if you're any good?"

Obviously never in these words. But, yes, it's a concern when I'm hiring. However, I'm also plenty smart enough to value experience and maturity in a candidate so long as I believe them capable of integrating well into our culture despite not being all green.

Have you considered bringing it up yourself? I.e. proactively reassuring them that you're aware and keen to fit in and happy to accept standard grad conditions? As stated above, it's a tricky one for hiring managers to even consider asking due to legal concerns.

Granted, it might be a risky move - but what have you got to lose? Can't get worse than them not hiring you anyway...

Not RTFT but ageism is rife.
What you have going for you is that you are likely to be less naive than those you are competing against. You are more likely to stay in a region because of kids' schools etc. You are more used to teamwork and so on.
Sadly, sexism is still there.
You want a job with a company who wants the best candidate (you) and isn't going to be narrow-minded. Keep plugging away, and approach companies directly where possible.

definitely look at applying in London
I can’t unfortunately. It’s too far to commute and I would have zero chance of working without the amazing support network I have here.

@Whatdoyouknowwhenyouknownowt what do you think my chances are of getting APC support in a smaller firm? Do you think they’d be more likely to overlook my age?

Is it chartered surveying? I had the exact same problem despite being top of my class in my MSc.

@TakenForSlanted that is very good, practical advice. I may just find a way of indirectly slotting it in

@gigi556 yes it is. How did you overcome it? What would you recommend?

Oh I've just seen it is chartered surveying!! I had the same thing. It was really frustrating. I took a job with a smaller asset management company then a large surveying firm but in an unrelated role. I never qualified
and now I'm starting my own business in a completely different industry. I try not to think about how much I spent on the MSc. I really wanted to work in the industry but ended up making some really bad career moves!

I think if you keep at it, you'll get somewhere in the end. I know JLL took on a number of people after the normal grad in take. Once you have foot in the door at any of these firms, you should be able to get onto the APC track. So apply for temp contracts etc too. Good luck!

@MikeUniformMike I naively thought it would be beneficial to mention I want to stay regional but sadly it doesn’t seem to have helped. It’s a shame because a lot of these big companies are hiring grads from Reading who’ll migrate down south as soon as they become chartered. It seems such a waste of their time and resources to employ them in my opinion. I hoped that I projected a sense of potential loyalty by mentioning I wanted to stay regional... however I wonder if they saw through that and guessed I have children.
Who knows. Maybe I’ll lie and say it’s because my young mother is widowed and I don’t want to abandon her