To think I’m suffering ageism at 31?

[BreastSideStory]

I’m having a compete career change, studying for an MSc and applying for graduate schemes (recommended route to become qualified).
I have applied for around 16 different grad schemes and have been invited to only 1 interview. My CV is impeccable, I have over 10 years corporate experience (in an unrelated field but many of the skills are transferable).
I’m currently top of my class receiving high distinctions in all modules.
Yet I cannot seem to get an apprenticeship or grad scheme place

I went to one assessment day for a well known company, 8 of us there. A mixture of presenting, interviews and group work. I did well in all areas and even went for drinks afterwards with some of the staff. I’m bubbly and sociable so I just dont understand why I am not progressing?

It’s not my personality because I’m being rejected by a lot of companies at the first hurdle (before they’ve met me) and when I’ve requested feedback they’ve all replied saying I’m an extremely strong candidate but not for them right now.

The only thing I can think is holding me back is my age. I’m 31 (though I’m told regularly I look quite a bit younger) and the average grad applicant age is around 23/24 yrs old.
I was the oldest person on the recent assessment day by 8 years.

Does this really happen in this day and age? People discriminating against applicants because they’re a lot older than the others?

I’m feeling so down. Currently working on my thesis in the library and holding back tears

Has anyone else experienced this or has any advice?

Graduate jobs usually do go to the younger candidates, they are likely seen as easy to mound, highly flexible, eager to prove themselves etc. Sadly, they may have realised you have children already or believe you plan to do so so will assume you need time off or won't be able to fully commit or be flexible.

@TheBigBangRocks so what do I do? I can’t erase the years... unless I actively lie about my age?

Yeah but if you don't get Brum?

I thought of it as a big Venn diagram, some didn't like my age, some thought I'd want kids, some didn't want trainees in the location I wanted and by the end, the intersection of those things resulted in a minute choice of company who didn't employ me, so you need bigger numbers to start.

It seriously fecked with my MH at the time, so that's why I'm going on a bit. Tho I've often thought I should write to the Estates Gazette asking if diversity had improved.

Unfortunately I had exactly the same experience more than 20 years ago when I graduated (with a 1st) at the terrible age of 32. I'm not going to out myself by revealing the sector but I applied for several graduate schemes where my previous work and life experience 'should' have been an asset to the companies I contacted. I'm not being arrogant in saying that - I mean, they asked for certain attributes and skills which I could demonstrate. It felt like a slap in the face again and again and, like you, I only ever got one sniff at a scheme out of many.

The worst thing was that having eventually ended up in a (non graduate) position, I was delighted to hear, a couple of years on, that the company I worked for was starting its own graduate scheme - with opportunities to experience every part of the business, accelerated promtion and so on. Several of my colleagues with degrees were also excited at the prospect of a real possibility of advancement. However, it soon came to light that they had no interest whatsoever in even considering any existing employee. What's more, they were cagey and non committal about it when people tried to find out how to apply. In the end, so many enquiries were made, and so much disquiet had been created, that they had to finally confirm applications were only open to external applicants. It created a hell of a lot of bad feeling and yes .... of course it was because they wanted to mould newbies into corporate clones, otherwise why not open the scheme to all? There were many interested parties who ticked off every last 'essential' requirement yet somehow we weren't good enough?

And they would have known by then which amongst us had children as well (sigh).

I still feel bitter (can you tell?!) about that in my 50s. It isn't true that 'older' candidates will necessarily be arrogant and/or stuck in their ways. That's down to the individual and indeed, many in their 30s who may have more responsibilities and commitments would perhaps be more likely to stay with a particular firm for stability. The turnover of graduate entrants I saw over the next few years was quite high for example. It's ageism for sure, potentially with a good dose of sexism thrown in too if you're female, but how this can be rectified I don't know.

Plus it appears you have Brexit. There was a slight suspicion of good grades too floating about, if I remember rightly, as it's such a sociable profession.

Im on a grad scheme in my 40s. Along with a corporate background and degrees. Might just be you arent right for that job

I used to inwardly die a little bit when yet another of my (with job offer) pals would breezily say "I'm only going to do my APC, then I'm going to travel..." I would have stayed longer than they were planning to and have never had kids.

Have any of the people on your course been accepted on graduate schemes ? Do you have the stats from previous years ?

Now they expect you to have a baby.
Ten years from now you start to become completely invisible.
There's no good age to be a woman.

Wizzy, not a helpful thing to say. It's not a job, it's a profession with many, many different roles and one will suit the OP, as no-one does a conversion course if they're not interested and got aptitude.

Good point actually, go see the lecturers, have a frank conversation and see where people go...

I had those conversations, it was illuminating!

Can you do any unpaid or voluntary work closely related to your degree to add onto your CV.

Now they expect you to have a baby.
Ten years from now you start to become completely invisible.
There's no good age to be a woman.

It’s this isn’t it. Bloody disgrace in the 21st century.

No advice but sending all the luck and good vibes OP. Keep at it.

It is a disgrace and I found it even more difficult when people didn't believe how Neanderthal it still is in places.

I still have to pick builders based on their ability to speak to me...as some can't or won't talk to women.

I think many employers (rightly or wrongly) do shy away from hiring women in their 30s as they think they’ll either take maternity leave or have childcare commitments. I’m 39 and I’ve just landed a new job this month, but had previously been rejected for so many roles that on paper I was a perfect fit for. When I first applied for jobs in my mid-20s I got 2 out of the 3 jobs I interviewed for, and I cannot believe that more experience made me less employable than I was then!

@Whatdoyouknowwhenyouknownowt the grades thing isn’t fair either, I want to do well in my degree and I am. It seems insane to be penalised for excelling academically I’m extremely sociable though and accentuate that on my CV.

@Br3adnButt3rPud I’ve sent my CV everywhere I can think today trying to get some work experience. Hopefully it’ll pay off!

@HorseDoorBolted your name is exactly how I feel 😂 I wish I’d done this degree 10 years ago! Thank you for your kind words

IMHO it is complete bullshit though that companies are still like this about “women of childbearing age”.

I work in a small company with large majority of parents and people in their 30s. Some people have gone on maternity/paternity. The world has not ended. If a small growing business can manage it everyone bloody else can.

Rant over

@Metalhead you are so right. A few year ago even I was offered every single job I applied for.

At the moment I feel lost. I wish they could see what a fantastic employee I could be.
Every boss I’ve ever had still keeps in touch and I still get invited on staff nights out from my last 2 employers!

Sorry about this typos. I’m sat here crying. I’m trying my very hardest to have a career after children and it’s so disheartening to realise the odds are so heavily stacked against women of my age.
I don’t even feel old! I still think I’m relatively young

i felt very old at the time but it turned out to be a blip in the great scheme of things.

The upside is that when you find a company, they will love you and really want you. Plus you won't just be a cog, you'll be appreciated for your particular set of talents and experience.

The last corporate interview I went to, a 41 yo, mum of 2, got the job and it was an amazing job, massive European property portfolio. So it can be done, you will have to be resourceful tho and not be hurt by the cruelty inherent in not being given a chance.

Don't cry (tho I totally understand why) grip get and plan! You will overcome...

I’m sorry OP. You’re competing against a large number of others for a small number of jobs reduced further by Brexit. You will just need to keep plugging away and endeavour to get relevant experience to help boost your credentials. Best of luck to you.

I just feel like the wind has been taken out if my sails.
Yesterday I received the grades for my latest module and I got the highest grade overall by a clear 6 marks... then today I got turned down by the only company who even bothered to want to meet with me.

Honestly, you are young, I am ten years older than you and think that sone of these 'insights' are truly shocking. It's 2019 and some people aren't willing to accept this and things are changing. People have to stick their necks out in certain industries and be pioneers, changing these old fashioned, dark ages judgements. Tbh businesses that are truly diverse are the ones that do well as they're getting the real, best talent. My husband is a senior Architect in a well known company that is involved in interviews and always bases it on their true credentials as do his colleagues- nothing to do with child bearing age or gender. Ultimately, a company that doesn't recruit in that way will not have the competitive edge as they will not have the best people working for them. Equally, people have applied for jobs with them due to their progressive attitudes, if you're not concerned with work life balance anymore, the best move on in his experience to family friendly companies.

We’re turning away graduates with a First in a related field from Oxbridge/top ten unis, because we have graduates applying with the same grades, work experience placements and year long internships with us.

In both big companies I’ve worked for, 60% of those taken on grad schemes are already known to the business.