To think I’m suffering ageism at 31?

[BreastSideStory]

I’m having a compete career change, studying for an MSc and applying for graduate schemes (recommended route to become qualified).
I have applied for around 16 different grad schemes and have been invited to only 1 interview. My CV is impeccable, I have over 10 years corporate experience (in an unrelated field but many of the skills are transferable).
I’m currently top of my class receiving high distinctions in all modules.
Yet I cannot seem to get an apprenticeship or grad scheme place

I went to one assessment day for a well known company, 8 of us there. A mixture of presenting, interviews and group work. I did well in all areas and even went for drinks afterwards with some of the staff. I’m bubbly and sociable so I just dont understand why I am not progressing?

It’s not my personality because I’m being rejected by a lot of companies at the first hurdle (before they’ve met me) and when I’ve requested feedback they’ve all replied saying I’m an extremely strong candidate but not for them right now.

The only thing I can think is holding me back is my age. I’m 31 (though I’m told regularly I look quite a bit younger) and the average grad applicant age is around 23/24 yrs old.
I was the oldest person on the recent assessment day by 8 years.

Does this really happen in this day and age? People discriminating against applicants because they’re a lot older than the others?

I’m feeling so down. Currently working on my thesis in the library and holding back tears

Has anyone else experienced this or has any advice?

You could also change the dates of your graduation too, if you were confident they wouldn't check this?

That's the age I was when I suffered ageism.
A consultant advised me the reason was due to being the prime age to start a family.
It didn't matter that I never planned on having kids.

So. My experience of grads in professional services firms is that they need people who are willing to work very hard doing grunt work without complaint. I have dealt with many many trainees in my time including a handful of older ones.

This may not be the case for you but Im afraid I found the majority of older trainees I dealt with (age 35+) bristled at being expected to do the junior grunt work some of which fell on that grade - they felt were used to working beyond that, they felt entitled to better quality work and client access and they didn’t like being told what to do by a 25 year old manager. Plus weren’t keen on the late nights at no notice that were par for the course.

I don’t recruit for juniors myself these days but if I were when looking at older candidates for entry level roles then I would want to really understand whether they got the fact that (in your case) you may have 10 years corporate experience BUT that you would be happy and willing to going back to being the most junior member of the team without expecting being able to leapfrog. And that you were willing to learn how to do things our way. Whilst hopefully being able to bring some extra skills and maturity (approach not age) with you.

Ah, not a lot has changed then, I do feel your pain!

My lecturer even told me to take my wedding ring off. I couldn't believe it...but then they also knew which companies would take on which students for the reason below...

You'll need to look at the class aspect too. If you're not posh, you'll need to apply to some of the smaller, more flexible, possibly more public sector places. That's where the less typical people applied to and were successful.

Before anyone leaps on me, this is a very profession-specific thing and it is truly unbelievable unless it happens to you, it feels like a 50's timewarp.

You won't waste the qualification, I went on to make a shedload of money, you just have to approach it differently to doing a load of milkround applications. Plus leverage the shit of of any network you have!

Also look at principles, so big property owning companies, investment companies, all sorts of things...

And you really need to get some industry experience.

I’d also add that surveying is (in my experience) not terribly enlightened on gender compared to some other professional services and I suspect in some firms you will have a tougher hurdle being a woman in her 30s. If you mention you have kids they will think you’ll be running for the door at 5.00 and off as soon as little Archie has a sniffle. If they don’t know that they may assume you’re looking to have mat leaves at their expense soon. And some of those thoughts will be happening consciously in recruiters and some unconsciously if they’re not strict with themselves.

None of which they would think about men of your age tbh. Which is patriarchy in action.

@Whatdoyouknowwhenyouknownowt
You understand!
I took my engagement ring off for the sake reason. I am also from their stereotypical background... privately educated etc, I’m well spoken.
The biggest grad scheme (I won’t name) asked 28 people to their recent assessment day in the regional office local to me, of those 28 candidates there was ONE woman. One.

We’ve hugely reduced the numbers of grad intake for this year (engineering consultancy firm) including chartered surveyors, due to client uncertainty with Brexit.

I’d say that we are currently looking to hire less than a third than normal to start in H1, with a possible second intake (and therefore second assessment centre) to take place in June once things are more settled.

@BinaryStar I’m willing to work from the bottom up, I have no experience so I’m aware this is what I have to do.
I couldn’t however do 10 hour days at short notice, maybe they’ve picked up on this?

I'd knock off a few bits of experience too op, it will make you look less experienced too
I can’t really do this because I’ve only worked in 2 jobs. I could, however, remove the dates of employment so they can’t tell how long I was there for 🤷🏼‍♀️

Ha, ha, I totally do!

I'm not being snarky about class, it really is a "face fits" thing...

Big hug!

@YahBasic
I am so relieved to see someone admit it’s because of Brexit uncertainty! I suspected as much as the regional offices I’ve applied to seem to be taking on 1, maybe 2 grads this year instead of the usual 5-8.
Hopefully I’ll be inundated with offers come June then

I also career changed in my 30s, and you are right that there is a lot of ageism. I found a job, but there are lots of preconceptions about me simply because I started this career a bit later. Companies seem to prefer a blank slate to someone who brings experience, and some are short sighted enough to think that previous experience gained outside their industry is worthless (which it obviously isn't - lots of skills are transferable).

@Whatdoyouknowwhenyouknownowt my face fits. I could slide right into their staff photos 😂
It appears my age does not fit for the lower positions unfortunately.
I just need 2 years support to do my APC then I’ll have so many more options

I’m panicking now thinking I’ve just wasted 11yrs doing my masters for nothing

Have you spent 11 years doing your master's? If so, that could be it.

But a friend of mine did what PP have suggested, and knocked ten years off her age when she requalified in a new career - she just put down the dates of her new degree and began her CV from scratch.

It's hard - grad schemes are aimed at young people with no experience typically and they are extremely competitive, having transferable experience as others have said may make them concerned that you have preconceived ideas. The maternity leave/young kids angle is also probably a factor, they can be very picky so are - I have been (illegally) asked about kids in interviews, so wrong but you can see from an employers point of view is they are investigating a lot in their trainees.

16 isn't that many, my dd was advised to apply for 50+ to have any chance of success and you need to let them know you are flexible, willing to learn etc anything to put you ahead goes, certainly don't mention the children. However wrong this is, you are competing against male 23 year olds without kids willingly to relocate anywhere.

@KatherinaMinola I meant 11K

Ah, that makes more sense! It's just - as I'm sure you know - employers get a bit antsy if someone's taken longer than the usual time.

certainly don't mention the children I haven’t and won’t. I even removed pictures of my kids from my social media account in case they decide to look me up. I’m not looking to relocate which is why I’ve applied only to the regional offices, they are different applications.

@KatherinaMinola no I’ll have done my MSc in less than 10 months by the time I graduate

Yeah but the problem is, as op says, she needs to do the apc with a firm that runs it & they are fewer in number than say for accountancy training schemes.

I found that most of the other people were connected, so had experience from the family business or their family friends.

I would get cold calling. I didn't as I naively thought winning all of the prizes would mean that people would suddenly see the light! It was a bit grim when the phone didn't ring.

Shame I wasn't better at networking, my young friends are probably quite senior by now.

But definitely hang in there, I eventually did a bit of surveying, so interesting & such a variety of roles.

I think you'll need to think London, sorry, just because of numbers.

Op it is worth having a think about the hours that the firms would expect you to do and how predictable those are. If you would be regularly expected to work late with no notice can you structure your family support around this? Can you OH be evening default parent?

Just in terms of being willing to start at bottom that is good but you still need to make sure that you act that way.

@Whatdoyouknowwhenyouknownowt I know why you’d suggest London, but Birmingham has a huge real estate industry so I don’t think that’s setting me back to be honest.

@BinaryStar no he couldn’t because of his hours, however my mum has said she is willing to help out as much as necessary until I get my chartership

Just in terms of being willing to start at bottom that is good but you still need to make sure that you act that way
It can’t be my behaviour because I’m not being progressed further than the application stage, they haven’t met me.

I will definitely take on board all the advice on here, I will be removing all dates from my CV with the exception of my most recent job which started in 2016