AIBU to be frustrated by the sheer volume of bogus legal advice on Mumsnet?

[Ladyoftheloch]

I am ceaselessly amazed by the amount of absolute tripe people spout about the law on AIBU, from people who clearly do not know what they are talking about and have no justification for the ‘advice’ they give.

People state as factual certainties every vague, half-formed belief they hold as though they’re practicing lawyers working in the field every day. I truly think some posters believe that because their opinion seems sensible to them, it must be the true legal position.

It’s wildly irresponsible, and people do it without giving any thought to the potential harm they could be doing by giving someone bogus advice.

There is a reason lawyers have to have degrees and professional qualifications. There is a reason they have to do a minimum amount of CPD every year. There is a reason they have to carry hefty insurance in case of mistakes.

So please, stop this nonsense. Stop starting sentences with the word ‘Legally...’ if you aren’t actually a lawyer practicing in the relevant field. Stop telling people what they are doing is legal or illegal. Stop insisting that everyone is entitled to half an hour of free legal advice as though it’s a human right. Stop confidently making proclamations about property disputes, wills, divorce, court procedures or whatever else based on your woolly sense of what you think is right. You have no idea of the harm and confusion you might be causing.

daduck

Now i havent done any of those.

But my plumber just last week fixed a minor leak for free. Because it was an easy fix (i was expecting to pay)

My IT director brother sorts my mum's computer out.

The ed psych who did DS tribunal offered school some "general" advice for free a year or so after.

My OT friend regularly signposts people who better help and support.

I return ive helped complete a few DLA forms purely because thats how i can help.

And that's real life. People do help out people in need for free.

Online its easy to ignore requests, especially as noone is asking you specifically. If you dont want to reply just scroll past. None will know or care!

Yes but you asked in quite an aggressive tone, or at least that's how it came across ,assuming that lawyers wouldn't be giving time for free. And I very definitely do. As do most I know.

And you know, there's a big difference between offering to do something for free, and being expected to do something for free.

See all the many CF threads on here.

How many of you saying people should pay for it and not ask online offer your services for free to those in need?

Also by this i was trying to highlight how many people out there have poor or no access to legal advice. A forum might well be there only access. Paying someone might get you better advice (although in my experience not always), but for many that isnt a possibility.

I find it deeply arrogant to disparage those asking and those offering help.

My favourite was a confidently stated “you can’t make a bequest conditional on something happening after your death” - a variation of which I saw on the current will thread. Seems completely logical - would in fact make almost every professionally drafted will invalid.

If they need free legal advice, rather than go online where they cannot give full details and they have no way to evaluate the quality of the advice, they would be better to contact one of the very many free law clinics run by universities. At one of which I give my time when requested.

find it deeply arrogant to disparage those asking and those offering help.

I think the key thing is that offering bad advice is worse than offering none.

I mentioned upthread that I don’t judge or blame people for asking for legal advice. But there is no kindness in people who don’t know the law providing what is ostensibly legal advice. At best it’s useless, and at worst it’s actively harmful. It isn’t a kindness to behave as though you are in a position to help when you absolutely aren’t.

daduck

Cross posted above. It shouldn't have been an asumption that you dont offer help although reading back it it was exactly what it was. I am sorry for that. I hope the post above clarifies the point i was trying (poorly) to make.

Ladyoftheloch

I think thats the thing those personally ive had as much bad advice ive paid for (or been paid for by the NHS) as i have had from an internet forum. Ive had Doctors covering their own and colleagues backs rather than do their very best for the child in front of them. Ive had real life solicitors are often so institutionalised into the court and law system that their advice totally misses the wellbeing of the people involved. Ive been told that "i cant have an appointment until a fortnights time" by then its too late. The biggest financial mistake my brother made was on the advice of a well respected accountant.

Rarely are those in positions of authority genuinely held accountable for their mistakes. At least online someone can offer opposing advice.

GreenEggsHamandChips thanks - and apologies for you too, I reacted prickly because I give a lot of time and effort for free and I'm sick and tired and fed up of people assuming I don't, I shouldn't have taken that out on you.

And YY to offering bad advice is worse than offering none.

How many times have you asked your mechanic to fix your car for free?

Growing up helping DF (he ran a motor repair workshop) I grew used to customers who'd rock up, tell DF what the problem was, exactly what he needed to do to fix it, and why it shouldn't cost a penny as it was "just a tweak"·

DFs skill wasn't so much as a mechanic, but as a businessman in dealing with such twatbadgers. It wasn't unusual to hear a bonnet being dropped and my DF saying "well, sounds like you've got the best quote then" as the customer mentioned a garage elsewhere that would "do it for a fiver".

My DBs and I learned very quickly that the dropped bonnet was a signal to never do work for that customer.

There are plenty of appalling practising lawyers out there. I wouldn’t assume even they were right to be honest. On MN posters shoot from the hip no matter what their job. I’ve seen many disputes on eg tax and inheritance where two posters take opposite views and both insist they work in the field

I think thats the thing those personally ive had as much bad advice ive paid for (or been paid for by the NHS) as i have had from an internet forum

I think this is really unfortunate, and it isn’t surprising that it has coloured your view. I would say that at least with a genuine professional there are standards they have to adhere to and if they don’t, they are backed by professional indemnity insurance to pay for their mistakes. I do appreciate though that in reality there isn’t always an easy route to redress for bad advice.

I still think, however, that there is something dangerous and reprehensible about someone offering advice as facts, when they don’t have any basis for doing so. It’s one thing to say ‘this is what I think you should do’ and another thing entirely to say ‘this is what the law is’. Far too many people are willing to say the latter when they don’t know, and with no thought to the damage they might be doing.

The thing is in a closed consulting room a doctor or a lawyer can say whatever aslong as it doesnt hit the bar for malpractice. Sometimes their advice is so guarded its not worth much anyway. If you paid 200 an hour for advice saying you havent a clue the best way forward isnt an option. At least an open forum is open.

But fundamentally, do you think it is helpful / good for people on a forum who don’t know the law to post as if they do?

In my area of law, I often end up saying "I don't know the definitive answer to that, the law is not settled, because xyz, but my professional opinion is you would not be held liable if ..." or "my professional opinion is that the best course of action for you is xxx"

I can't and don't make up definitive answers when none exist.

That's the thing with law - there isn't always a clear yes/no answer.

People who don't know the law shouldn't post as if they do.

Every legal case is different, there are similarities, but every case is unique - and the law changes on an on-going basis, which means that what happened to your Auntie Sue 5 years ago, might not be what happens to you this year.

That's the thing with law - there isn't always a clear yes/no answer.

This is so true. Sometimes the best / only thing you can do is explain the options, give some indication of what the possible risks are in respect of each, and then let people make their own decision. It’s not hedging advice - it’s just what the circumstances require.

Exactly Lady - it's not hedging, it's just that no one knows what way it'll fall if it goes to court, for example. Or whether the other side will accept a compromise agreement. Or in the case of a new law, where the boundaries of that law will be drawn by the courts.

I was given free legal advice when I posted about something on here a while back. The poster sent over all her credentials and her office address by pm.

She did it all covertly and didn’t want me to thank her on the thread. We both namechanged afterwards obviously but I will never forget how kind and generous she was with her time and expertise. She wrote two letters for me.

She completely changed my opinion of lawyers and I hadn’t asked for free advice, I panicked and was wanting to talk to randoms on the internet about it.

But fundamentally, do you think it is helpful / good for people on a forum who don’t know the law to post as if they do?

Unless you know who they are in real life you actually dont know what their experience is or isn't? Its an anonymous forum no-one has to prove their credentials.

People who don't know the law shouldn't post as if they do.

A common acronym in some circles is IANAL ...

It is very difficult to read posts asking for help with legal issues regarding employment. I have read so many conflicting declarations such as; Your employer can’t sack you for missing two weeks of work if your child is hospitalised or You can be sacked without notice if you have worked less than two years. These are just generalizations.

I would think employment questions should be directed to HR or reading throughly through the employment contract would be the best way to handle things.

There's so many things posted where the answer is "We don't know. What does the contract say" tbh.

Conversely I find nothing more irritating than people ploughing in to 'Legal' with their moralistic AIBU heads on. Most cannot work out that there is a difference between their opinion about a situation and the law relating to child arrangements.

Legal.
OP : My ex only sees his kids every other weekend and is unemployed and doesn't pay CM. My new partner has just got a job 500 miles away. I want to move there with him and my kids. Can my ex stop me.

Response : If he doesn't pay anything then he has no right to call the shots. He can't stop you moving.

Utter bollox !