Climate change

[AJelly]

Hi - I'm new to mumsnet so just trying to figure it out. I find reading about all the global climate change issues and stuff really freaky. Does anyone else feel like this?? Or am I going nuts?

I've got 3 kids and I'm really worried about the kind of world they're going to grow up in. I want to talk about it with other mums but sometimes I feel like I'm the only one reading about it in the papers so too embarrassed to bring it up. Is it just me?

No, we need to talk about it more. It's one of the three key global issues and it's shocking how little people care.

Do you think they don't care or just have no idea what to do about it? Or maybe it just won't affect them or their kids? Or maybe just too damn busy with kids and work and stuff?

I think lots of people find it overwhelming.

Right - that's interesting. There seems to be two types of reactions either ignoring it or rage (based on fear) like some of those activist groups. The thing is the more people talk about it, the more the media talk about it, the more the government are likely to take action and reduce the impact of climate change.

Most people feel that they don't have much influence over this issue.
To be fair I can see their point of when you consider how much pollution is being produced in massive construction projects and by the huge growth of car sales in China and India. Cutting down yourself seems like a drop in a vast vast ocean.
I'm not trying to say that China and India are responsible for climate change btw, those were just examples of places where car ownership has shot up massively and where massive infrastructure projects and industrialisation is big and growing.

I’ve finally reached a point where I feel like the time would be right to have children (dh and I in our 30s, both with decent jobs, mine with flexible hours), but last year I decided I wouldn’t because of climate change. It’s not the only factor influencing my decision but it is the major one.

I wonder what kind of world the children of today will inherit.

It really is quite terrifying. I don’t know how so many parents are so blasé about climate change.

I'm actually researching this at the moment in an educational context.

So far, it seems that many feel that there's nothing they can do about it, so they don't bother. That the small impact they can make won't have a global impact.

There are lots of people who know that it won't affect them in their lifetime, so see attempting to make a difference as a waste of time.

Many don't believe how bad it is. There are lots who think that it's some sort of government invented problem.

Lots don't understand it.

Lots are overwhelmed and find it difficult to think about, so they don't.

It's terrifying.

So far, it seems that many feel that there's nothing they can do about it, so they don't bother. That the small impact they can make won't have a global impact.

^This. Stop typing now, switch off all devices. Don't go anywhere ever again, don't eat any food.

We are still fucked if the science is true.

Buying an electric car MAKES IT FAR WORSE.

Buying an electric car does not make climate change worse. That flies in the face of basic evidence. Electric cars are better for the environment than fossil cars.

The big worry with climate change is that politicians and governments only see as far as the next election. There’s no real traction to make the hard decisions. They think only short-term economy. When the reality is that climate change will be ruinous to global stability and the financial system.

We can’t rely on politicians to make the macro changes that would really combat climate change. So us individuals are left having to do the micro changes.

As individuals, the two biggest things we can do are

• eat as little meat/animal products as possible
• stop driving fossil fuelled cars

I disagree, and I won't be stopping my meat consumption or driving my car.

What we can do now is educate our children in how important these issues are.

Why do you disagree? On what basis?

Personally I don't like talking about it much even though I'm quite passionate about it.
Would feel a bit weird if another mum just randomly brought it up at a baby group or something.
I recently read Naomi Klien's book This changes everything and it made me feel physically sick with worry and I stopped sleeping for about a week. So I am trying to worry about it less but make more changes. But to be honest I don't think my changes make much difference.
Another friend of mine suffers with awful depression and anxiety because she is so worried about it. She's doing everything in her power to reduce environmental impacts - she's a plastic free, car free vegan and spends her time helping others live a more eco life. But still it's not even a drop in the ocean.
It's horrible and to be honest I really wish I could live in ignorant bliss of not knowing or caring about it.

As long as i dont have to make any changes or sacrifices in my life then i think we should do everything possible

It seems that quite a lot of people are secretly (or not so secretly) making changes to the way they love. There’s loads more vegans/veggies out there and a ‘flexitarian’ diet where you only eat meat once or twice a week is def getting more popular. The science is pretty sound that if we all thought about our food more it would make a big impact.
Consumption is a big issue though and tricky to give up. I love to shop!!!
But really what’s annoying is the government could be much more proactive with this. Insisting big business invest in renewables, investing in water-saving tech - there is an absolute tonne of stuff they could be doing to make a difference. I was half thinking of starting a family friendly activism group but not sure if anyone would join. If loads of parents got together and insisted on government action they would be more likely to listen. Strong communities rather than individuals make great changes.

I disagree that those are the two most important things we can do. We should be joining forces to educate and to tackle corporations that are creating most of the issues.

Stopping the consumption of meat is a personal choice and one I'm not willing to make, same as driving my car. I do other things, just not these.

Electric cars are currently more harmful for the environment than petrol cars when you consider mining rare earth metals, manufacture, electricity generation and end of life cycle and what to do with toxic batteries The plan is one day they will be better but not there yet!
Climate change is a natural and oft repeated cycle and only a fool disputes that - however the question is whether man is exacerbating the current rates of change and if so will we exceed Mother Nature's ability to re-regulate things to compensate? That is where the fear is and should be and in the face of the unknown we can and should do things to improve our chances to prevent an out of control situation - but a number of people take it too far and are extreme.

Nope. Electric cars are better. Yes, there’s an initial carbon cost to manufacturing the batteries. That’s a big problem.

Beyond that, there’s the cleanliness of the grid used to power the car. Depends on where you live. Where I live I have 100% renewable.

Even if your grid is powered primarily by fossil fuel, the emissions are still better than fossil fuel cars.

Here’s an 80 page study by the European Environment Agency:

www.eea.europa.eu/publications/electric-vehicles-from-life-cycle/download

Batteries are quite good at being recycled. Plus it’s oikely that electric car batteries canbthen be used as domestic batteries once they drop below a certain percent.

Can someone explain nicely why eating meat is so bad? I don't understand why that is bad for the environment.

I do recycle what I can and use as little plastic is possible, things like fruit and veg I always get loose and don't put in a bag they seem insignificant really but I'm not sure what else I can do? I have massive food issues so eating less meat isn't really an option for me and I can't afford an electric car but I would love to do more.

Meat is a landuse issue. Huge tracts of forests are cut down to grow food for cattle and trees are the planets ‘lungs.’ The biggest, quickest impact you can make is eat less beef.

But really it’s about choice - if the thought of reducing meat to a few times a week isn’t for you but buying less stuff or cycling to work is or community activism (the biggest impact) anything is great really. I suppose i’m interested in what works for time-poor families.

Climate does gradually change over millennia (unless there’s a disaster - asteroid etc) but the evidence that the industrial revolution has damaged the environment is irrefutable now.

Thanks for raising this. Needs talking about. I feel sick with worry and am basically exploring surrealism as a way of coping with my feeling that we’re living in the opening scenes of a science fiction movie. Climate scientists are worried. We should be worried. And find ways to act. Individual actions are small but acting with others can make a difference. I am still figuring out which changes to make. Interested in what others are doing. My big one is joining Greenpeace to campaign for the protection of rainforests. There’s nothing much we can do about the ice now. That’s melting, and that’s a massive carbon sink that we are losing. The rainforests are the next best hope. We have a decade potentially to get this to be the most talked about thing so that innovators, engineers, scientists, big companies and governments get their priorities straight. I’m losing sleep too but I think the more of us who start saying this the better.

Read your linked report - Electric car damages CAN be offset by life use (but aren't yet).
The largest potential reduction in GHG emissions
between a BEV and an ICEV occurs in the in-use phase,
which can more than offset the higher impact of the
raw materials extraction and production phases

I do talk about it with some friends: I have a science / ecology background, so I tend to get asked questions by people who know this when it crops up in conversation.

But I don't go out of my way to talk about it to individuals who are going vegan / giving up plastic / taking the bike to work because the reality is that individual actions will have absolutely fuck all impact - unless you are the CEO of a huge company or the ruler of a large nation. And if you are, and in some fit of eco-madness you chose to impose the kind of changes on your customer / subjects / voters that are really needed to have an impact, you are going to be fired / kicked out / voted out asap.

And the changes would have to be imposed because people are not going to choose to curtail their personal liberty to choose what / how / when they travel / eat / shop / live. Look at the response in France to Macron's fuel surcharges? The developed world still wants development to maintain living standards, and the developing world wants to grow to achieve these standards. That's not going to change as long as free market economies dominate. Despite a million TED talks on the subject, I can't see anything on the horizon that promises to change that. Communism is a dead duck, as is socialism.

So doom and gloom all round. Personally, I'm turning to Stoicism: I can't control what is happening, so I'm not going to torture myself worrying or moaning about it. I will do what I can to live a good life, and care for those I love, and make the most of them. Future generations will have to fend for themselves as best they can. 'Twas ever thus.