Climate change

[AJelly]

Hi - I'm new to mumsnet so just trying to figure it out. I find reading about all the global climate change issues and stuff really freaky. Does anyone else feel like this?? Or am I going nuts?

I've got 3 kids and I'm really worried about the kind of world they're going to grow up in. I want to talk about it with other mums but sometimes I feel like I'm the only one reading about it in the papers so too embarrassed to bring it up. Is it just me?

There's a climate change MN board but it's not very busy, which perhaps suggests that many people aren't that worried. Brexit is getting all the attention at the moment.

I've been reading a lot about Extinction Rebellion (who are planning actions for mid-April) and the school strikes - I think it has started to gain increasing attention.

The single biggest issue for the whole world is simply the number of people now crammed into it. This country (UK) went through its worst polluting period more than centuries ago, and it’s very hypocritical of us to think other nations shouldn’t have what we now enjoy, but it isn’t going to get any better, the genie is now out of the bottle, Pandora is now in flight. We have become addicted to a more, more, more culture. All we can do is try and rein in our excesses, try and educate our children, and hope that some decent global politicians do come along. It’s going to get far worse before it gets better, we have reached the stage (thankfully) where epidemics are almost a thing of the past, so that particular world saver won’t help us. Children attending local schools would help, people being able to either work from home or not have to travel too far to work every day would help. A varied diet would help, not overwrapping everything we buy or consume would help.

Development in poorer nations is completely possible without environmental armageddon. In fact, a lot of developing nations are leading the way and doing far more than we are in terms of renewable energy ( they have too as they can't get loans for fossil fuels). And a few of them have already completely banned single use plastics. Developing nations have a much lower carbon footprint than we do here generally. China has slashed meat consumption by half and are reforesting an area larger than Ireland. But what can we do here? Xtinction rebellion are great but I don't want to get arrested which is part of their action. I've organised a school strike at my kids school for the 15th Feb which is very community driven (and also seems to be good fun!). Having been an Environmental Scientist that worked for the UN in countries affected by climate change (before I had kids!) I can tell you that climate instability leads to major public health risks.

I suppose as I've seen the affects of climate change I'm very motivated to take action. Also, you've gotta believe you can influence your government which I do as I worked with governments but maybe most people don't?

Electric cars are terrible for the environment. As a PP noted, they require the mining of rare earth elements for the battery (and other components). Look up Baotou toxic lake... it's in Mongolia. It's filled with all the poisonous tailings from the mining industry. The landscape is desolate and scarred with toxicity for tens of miles. The same rare earth elements go into our computers and mobile phones and the magnets in wind turbines.

www.digitaljournal.com/news/environment/baotou-a-toxic-lake-created-because-of-a-thirst-for-technology/article/430511

As for wind turbines, it is impossible to build enough of them (along with tidal barrages, hydro plants etc etc) to keep up with our current and expanding energy demands for our way of life. Plus they kill migrating birds in their thousands. They build roads into wilderness areas and disturb local communities.

Something's got to give... there's no bright green techno solution to the crisis... only by disassembling industrial civilisation will we get a planet worth living on for all lifeforms. Most people aren't willing to give that up, so here we are in this impossible double bind, with 12 years left and ticking down.

I think at an individual level most people care, but not enough to actually make different choices (obviously some do, but not enough). People know that having less children or more children is better for the environment (ideally at most 2 per couple), but have more because that's what they want. We know we should eat less meat, but we dont because we like it. We know we should travel less but dont because we want to experience new countries or see the only way to relax as being on a beach somewhere hot. We use our cars because it's more convenient.
Nobody wants climate change but overall we just dont want to make the sacrifices that are really needed.

Also just want to say to the PP who has decided not to have children due to climate change that I have massive respect for you for that!! I have really wrestled with the same decision and am currently ttc for our first as I really want children so that's me not making the sacrifice that would have the biggest impact. However don't plan to have more than 2 (if we dont stop at 1).

typo- *not 'or more children' just less

Yeah. I've had 3 kids even though I'm concerned about the future. But I don't have much family myself so I guess I felt having children was important. That was something I didn't feel I could compromise on. However I've tried to live as sustainably as possible for years but it's almost a full time job quite frankly. So much thought has to go into what to buy where, how to eat, how to travel etc and it's knackering. Every time I find a company that's acting ethically and sustainably it seems to go out of business within a year because it can't compete against big business. So that's why I think community activism is the way forward now. Change big business and we've got half a chance of making progress.

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/3435036-losing-my-shit-over-climate-change

I started a thread about this a couple of moths ago. I've calmed down a bit, largely due to the advice given, but I still find the whole thing terrifying. I'm so worried for the next generation and where we are heading.

I’m feeling a huge amount of guilt and fear for the world that DS will grow up in. And I am trying to do as much as I can, so that I can tell him I did everything I could. I’ve gone vegan, walk rather than using the car a lot more. I can’t foresee us being able to justify an ‘aeroplane holiday’ again. I’m really thinking about what we buy and how I can reduce plastic use, etc.

Yes, it’s less than a drop in the ocean, but I am trying. I’m going to an extinction rebellion meeting in a couple of weeks too.

Whilst individual actions won't make any direct impact at all, if more and more people start doing them could it influence wider behavioural change that could then have an impact? I don't know if that's just a wild hope to feel a bit less futile. Probably.

I'm also one of those that feels very strongly but doesn't discuss it much - things like XR are too extreme for me but I would like to find some way of doing more that feels more tangible.

To the stoic ecologist, thanks, I need to borrow a bit of that attitude :) In response to that thread you started terrified I started looking up the addresses of the major polluters with a view to helping with a campaign to write to all these companies. I was so chagrined and disheartened to learn that most of the worst polluters are state owned companies in places like Russia, UAE, Iran. How the f you persuade these nations to change anything is beyond me. We just do what we can I think. I think you have to take individual action so that you know you're doing what you can. And talk to people if they ask you about it. I've been on a few flights in my life and have reconciled myself to not flying any more. I have one child. It's for him that I'm so worried. There's a kind of grief in admitting we have to live differently - in our heads. And I'm just getting to the point where I realise it doesn't mean I can never smile again.

Some of these message make me so sad! And so many important issues have been raised in just this one thread. All of which I believe are solvable if we get more people talking about it. It sounds weird but all the problems everyone's pointed out have inspired me to look for solutions. Parents in this country have so much more influence than they think.

I thought of another one and it came up yesterday in a discussion. The risk of being ridiculed. How many posts have you seen about vegans, people wasting plastic etc, with really aggressive comments in response. People don't want to involve themselves in things that they could he given abuse for. The vitriol on places like Facebook is insane.

Same with some of the older children I've taught. Some are passionate eco-warriors, some take the piss out of kids using the recycling bin or caring about turning the light off when leaving a room. So they stop doing it.

This editorial might be useful.

WhyDontYouComeOnOver - that's a good point. People on here are often criticised for having a less than perfect lifestyle environment-wise if they express concern about something.

Extinction Rebellion organised a die-in at Bristol Airport to protest against its expansion; the comments on the local paper's website were along the lines of 'go and jump off the Clifton suspension bridge you crusty hippies.'

Social shaming in kids is tricky but kids are easily influenced. They're almost the best target audience.

WhyDontYouComeOnOver - did you sat you educate in schools about climate change? what do you do? How do you do this?

KittiesInsane - interesting article. For me, the language is a bit alienating. Did you really get it? Policies are made based on the needs of the people but there doesn't seem to be any pathways for people to speak to politicians anymore. Perhaps it's time to make some.

Humanity is part of nature and climate change is natural. It has happened continually since the formation of the earth, and speeds up and slows down and changes direction depending on many factors.

I believe the climate is changing. I believe that mankind is contributing.

I don’t believe the apocalyptic claims of the climate change industry particularly though. And yet I want to protect the environment. Not because I fear weather and tidal cataclysm, but because I like the environment.

I think that makes my green credentials the best of all.

I'm a teacher, but I'm doing my PhD at the moment and looking at global drivers in educational, mainly the use of technology and education for sustainability.

I teach in Wales, so sustainability throughout primary education is compulsory and cross-curricular. There is a huge focus on it now so we do many things, also problem based learning and involvement with local and global communities. Still issues with social shaming as they get older, though, especially when they start to use social media. Lack of education is a huge problem. If parents at home aren't understanding how serious the issues are, the children won't.

StreetwiseHercules - no scientist would suggest the apocalypse is coming. That is how the media portray the information. There is a very real problem that scientists can't get their voices heard accurately.

The issue for climate change specifically in the UK is our ability to adapt to a changing environment. It's an engineering problem. If you have predictable weather patterns you can design infrastructure such as water supplies to make sure that everyone has enough. If, however, you get a lot less or (paradoxically) a lot more rain the ability to capture it becomes a lot more difficult which means having running water in our homes is a lot more challenging. Without regular running water, toilets don't flush and bathing, cooking and cleaning become an issue which leads to a public health crisis. These are the sorts of issues developing countries have to deal with. If climate change happens slowly, then the engineers can adapt. If it happens too fast, they can't. So really we should be doing everything possible to slow it down.

I watched an award winning documentary series... I think it was on Netflix a while back...
called "Years of Living Dangerously" which actually helped/shocked me into become a vegetarian due to the major effects of raising beef cattle.

Each episode was presented/investigated by a fairly well known celeb and they went all over the world looking at various climate change problems.

It showed the effects on the Oceans of rising sea temps and how the coral reefs are dying off at a rapid rate, destruction of the rain forests to grow palm oil etc and then other really weird situations e.g. How the Energy companies tried to stop homeowners in Florida from putting Solar Panels on their roofs!!

It definitely worth a watch if anyone gets the chance to see it.

I thought that was a more accessible version than the original (www.nature.com/articles/s41893-018-0194-x) which isn't open-access.

Roughly speaking: it's talking about a paper that looks at how near we are getting to some of the safe limits for various things like ocean acidity, climate change, use of land resources and fresh water, loss of species. (Answer: we're probably not doomed. Yet. Climate change is still in the amber zone, so to speak.)

Then it looks at which type of policies and interventions tend to have the right steering effect do you hope for technological change, or impose fines, quotas, permits, bans or what and notes that education and opportunities for women are key, as is alleviation of poverty.

It doesn't mention the problem of mickey-taking teenagers who think recycling is for softies.

Actually not many developing countries have those issues to deal with.

Most developing countries reside in warm climates.

They don't require gas for heating... only cooking.

They don't require as much electricity usage because even in winter months they get a full days worth of sunshine... most are now going forward with solar energy as an alternative ... but it is still costly for their governments so is taking a lot longer and isn't incentivised so not many citizens can afford it.

And not many countries use or require hot water for baths/showers or for doing the dishes or laundry.

And don't require tumble driers because we dry clothes outside... year round.

The problem is that developed countries keep lumping the same cutbacks on developing countries to reduce their emissions and carbon footprint.

As someone who grew up in a third world developing country... we don't not consume as much energy or require the same production outputs as say the U.K.... and we can't afford to manufacture anything because the cost of energy is crippling and makes it a loss even before starting hence the reason a lot of countries like mine only do the beginning of the manufacturing process and never see the benefits of the value added down the line.

Climate change is important but it shouldn't be viewed as a mass problem because each country has different requirements and consumption levels... it should be taken on a "collective" individual basis... so each countries climate change plan should be tailored for that country but done for the greater good of the world... if that makes sense instead of setting mass global requirements that most will never achieve.

Beansonapost - which developing country are you talking about? Yes, I can see what I wrote was slightly misleading - what I meant was unreliable water supplies lead to public health issues and I've worked in a lot of developing countries to try and prevent the spread of infectious disease by improving access to safe water. Climate change in the UK could lead to similar issues.

You are completely right though when you say that consumerist economies are the main cause of climate change and that our carbon footprint per person here is among the highest in the world.

butterfly56 - great tip! Thanks, I'll look it up.

KittiesInsane - thanks for the translation :-) Now, how can we get some of these policy changes in place! School strike anyone?