Lady begging on the tube

[UsedtobeFeckless]

Please all tell me in shouty capitals how it's a big wrong thing to give to beggers because l'm feeling bad about this.
Sitting on the tube and a lady comes along the carriage asking very quietly and politely for money. Everyone put their heads down and ignored her. I did too. If anyone else had put their hand in their pocket l would have done too but no-one did so l just sat there and l've been beating myself up for it ever since.
What would you have done?

I don't give to homeless people on trains. There are a couple of people who I have seen asleep in their tents very early and those people will get coffee and breakfast or lunch from me if they're awake.

I donate to shelter instead. I don't have a clue if the CEO has a huge salary but if that is the case - good. Charities should be able to employ people who are as effective as corporation employees (and you can bet the salary is nowhere near those city wages).

I also don't know what a 'professional beggar' is as opposed to someone who begs in order to eat... do they pay taxes and NI on what they beg, for example?

I agree with you Mistigri about the 'deserving' aspect. Don't claim to understand someone else's circumstances. Easy enough to find yourself there.

I don't ignore rough sleepers but always ignore train beggers. They are always organized gangs. Think of it this way- they've paid for their all day railcard, that could have gone towards a bed for the night!

To be honest, if a drink or a fix makes their misery more bearable, who am I to judge? so you’re quite ok with funding drug dealers and all that they stand for? For your money to pay for the fix which kills someone?

See I actually think that giving money is grossly irresponsible and helps to continue to fuel an industry which we shouldn’t be encouraging.

It amazes me that if you admitted on mn to buying a puppy through an advert on gumtree you would be slaughtered on the basis that you are funding an industry which encourages puppy farming, backyard breeding, irresponsible treatment of animals, yet refuse to give money to fund drug dealers, gangs who traffic people for numerous reasons including exploitation, prostitution etc and you’re sub human. Okayyyyyyy.

Someone on my FB posted a ton of pics a few weeks ago where she and her 2 dc ( aged 3 and 7 ) took boxes of stuff to the homeless in our big northern city.
She photographed every item in the box out on her kitchen counter and then the stack of boxes lined up, men and women's ones.

Whilst distributing said boxes, she and her dc then took photos of the recipient holding their box and in some pictures, the children were in the photo too.

Whilst it's very admirable that they did this, I felt it was wrong to post the pictures of the men and women on the streets with their boxes of goodies. There was a very long message along the lines of " myself and dc are off into town to give to the needy, we have so much and are very lucky and want the dc to see the real world " etc etc cue hundreds of messages saying how they are angels/amazing etc.

I've done things in the past without feeling the need for validation from others. That to me is how it should be.
It took the shine off it a bit for me that she was clearly looking for likes.

Ugh, yes, that ^ is vile.

If I don't have money, I say so. I don't understand putting your head down and pretending the person isn't even there

It's not a new thing, or even a furrin thing:

When I went to live in London in the mid-70s, for uni, I was shocked by beggars there
(I came from a rural village)

I was skint myself, so couldn't give anything and I soon learned just to ignore them, because saying "sorry, I've no money" too often brought aggression

If I don't have money, I say so. I don't understand putting your head down and pretending the person isn't even there and what if someone does have money but simply doesn’t want to fund scammers or drug dealers or gangs or whatever but would prefer to give to a charity who can help? What are they supposed to say? Lie and say they have no money? Or admit outright that they’d rather not give to someone and be the one potentially made to look bad? Why should the onus be on the person being pressurised to be the bigger person?

Just ignoring is by far the better thing to do rather than engage in a conversation or whatever with someone who is quite clearly a scammer. The ones on the underground all are. The public don’t owe them anything, not even the courtesy of engaging with them when clearly they are lying and cheating their way around the underground system.

Perhaps if less people engaged with these people and funded who or whatever they represent it would discourage what has become a growing industry.

Rough sleepers are different to beggers, but even they should be helped by the charities not by the donations of cash which then fund the drug dealers who have no morals about where their money comes from.

tube train beggars are very common. Sometimes they leave a packet of tissues on the seat next to you with a note asking you to buy them. It's still begging. There are often announcements warning you about giving money to them. As others have said it is likely that at least some of them are part of organised gangs . The more people give they more they will beg.

Homelessness is a huge problem in London as it is in all major cities in the UK, the best thing you can do is give money to organisations who have the resources to help those in genuine need to access support and housing. I know it is easy to say but giving someone a fiver to buy a can or two, or a wrap of heroin, or a sandwich is only papering over the cracks. Your fiver and lots of other fivers could actually help take someone off the street for good.

Don't you have to pay money to get onto the tube? Can't be that strapped for cash if she's got money to spare to go on the tube, especially when she could have begged on the street. Sounds like a scam artist to me and wouldn't have given her anything either.

It’s always bad to give to beggars. You don’t know where that money is actually going or what it will be used for (they could be exploited by a gang or they could be using the money on drugs). If you genuinely want to help people volunteer with/donate to one of the many organisations that works with the homeless.

@linoleumblownapart they often get aggressive or start following you

Plenty of people get into the tube without paying. If you catch it right you can go through the wide disabled/family/luggage/pushchair gates that give you about 3x long to enter than the normal barriers. I see people do it daily.

Many stations in far out zones or overground don’t even HAVE barriers, just a point where you can tap your card.

It’s really not a case of ‘oh they must have money since they’re on the tube’

Nope, they just know how to scam that system too.

I don't give cash to beggars. Ever.
Happy to support food banks, charities that tackle homelessness, big issue etc. I am not a heartless cow, but I know so many are not genuine.

There is a lad that gets the train from Leicester to Oakham or Stamford (near where I live), he brings his dog and sits begging in the nicer towns - then gets the train home again.

He is a student at the University where I work, he treats it as a job. Fair play I guess but he is not homeless, doesn't have any drug or alcohol issues (or certainly ones that prevented him studying successfully) so he is taking advantage of people's kindness.

There are also organised gangs operating on campus - mainly Albanian. They can get really nasty and target mainly vulnerable Chinese students when they first arrive for money taking them to cashpoints. When you see what goes on in the city centre via the police and security reports I get sent daily it makes you really wary. International students especially get picked on - what a welcome to the UK!

I think a lot of people say nothing because once you give recognition to a scammer they will persist and pester you until you break and give them money. That's why ignoring is the easiest option.

I live in a city on the European mainland and it's flooded with Romanian organized gangs begging around the city.

Last summer a local police officer told me that usually each gang has a "king" and each beggar has to get as much money as possible for them. They have absolutely no problem causing injuries to people begging to increase the pity factor. And if a particular injury brings in more money, they'll inflict it on another to increase the possibility of more income.

He told me sadly that it seemed to be children missing an eye that they'd seen a lot of that year. I can only pray it was a fake injury, but he didn't really confirm.

A few people were convinced that the Romanian ladies with the signs stating that they needed food for their children outside the supermarket were genuine, and some mums (on an expat forum) went in with these women and gave them a basket to get some items. When they got to the checkout the cashier told them not to do it again as they were returning all the groceries for cash. So they'll think of anything to increase their vulnerability to get money.

But yes @KirstyAllsoppsFatterTwin you are correct (reading back) the gangs originate from Romania but are of Roma background.

My dp did some work with the homeless through the church he used to go to before we were together, and there was one woman who used to beg on the streets, and if people offered her food she would accept a McDonalds. Once the person was out of sight she would pull out one of her hairs, put it in the burger and go back into the restaurant and create a fuss so they’d give her the cash. So even food and drink can be questionable. And I’m not talking about someone who was bought 20 mcDonalds a day without being asked, she would ask for one instead of cash and then use that cash to fuel her drink/drug habit.

If I don't have money, I say so. I don't understand putting your head down and pretending the person isn't even there

They then say they can accompany you to a cash point.

If you £5 and haven't eaten in 3 days do you buy a train ticket or food?

Can't really be that hungry if they buy a train ticket.

As for getting on a train without paying
So they are scamming the railways and tube as well.
Which in turn puts your fare up.

They then say they can accompany you to a cash point. On the tube? What do they do? Take a seat next to you and wait for your stop, come with you through the barriers and chat to you while you leave your daily task and find a bank for them to get £1. Nah, they usually just move on. They haven't got all day to be wasting on you, they can get more money if they move on.

I never give money ever. Plenty of homeless charities who are better recipients of your generosity - who won't be part of a begging gang, a drug addict etc etc

I work in C London and the professional beggars are very obvious. I give money to homeless charities like shelter instead as there's no point funding the beggars' masters.

Beggars are like pigeons - the more people that give them money, the more will appear. If there's no pickings then they'll move elsewhere or find a job.

London Underground have been very good at cracking down on them over the past few years but maybe they're getting lax if they're appearing again.

LinoleumBlownapart

The response was what a friend got on the tube when she said she didn't have any money

I think doing voluntary charity work is far better.

Especially after seeing 'The Time Of The Gypsies'..

This thread is so fucking depressing

Day after day we walk past young men and woman , cold and sick sat on a
Sleeping bag . Surrounded by plastics bags . It’s fairly blatant that they are homeless, cold and sick . Their shivers , dirty hands and complete sadness give that away

And they are COLD . It’s pretty easy to see

We also know that homelessness is on the rise

So if you don’t want to donate - fine that’s your prerogative

But don’t fucking accuse them of being billionaire Romanian arranged crime rings

Many are brits and many are east Europeans who came to work and it didn’t work out

It’s so insulting that these people who are in this immensely hard situation are being judged as being in a fucking crime ring

If I can afford a coffee from Starbucks I can easily afford and cup of tea , a friendly smile

This thread disgusts me