Lady begging on the tube

[UsedtobeFeckless]

Please all tell me in shouty capitals how it's a big wrong thing to give to beggers because l'm feeling bad about this.
Sitting on the tube and a lady comes along the carriage asking very quietly and politely for money. Everyone put their heads down and ignored her. I did too. If anyone else had put their hand in their pocket l would have done too but no-one did so l just sat there and l've been beating myself up for it ever since.
What would you have done?

I don’t normally give to beggars as I have heard so many stories about it being scams etc. Plus we aren’t great money wise normally.
In my local town there is a lady with a dog who sleeps in the subway we walk through for the school run so walk past her 4 times a day.
A couple of weeks ago some absolute piece of shit set fire to all her stuff! I couldn’t believe that someone could do that and it really upset me. The next time I saw her I spoke to her and she was more upset that her dogs stuff had been destroyed than her own. I only had £10 in my purse and she was very reluctant to take it. But long term I knew that £10 wasn’t going to make any difference to my life.

You do know they probably earn more than you and have a nice house as well

The attitudes to beggars depress me

This isn’t an attitude as others have attested.

If you give to a beggar who has paid for a train ticket then is stating they haven’t any money for food??? It doesn’t add up.

If they were that hungry they would have spent the train ticket money on food.

I think even the organise gangs beggars are abused, I saw a documentary, begging outside a moskee and restaurant in France. When the young girl brought the cash she had made to the old lady, the old lady beat her outside a restaurant with a large stick.
The lady I see outside mcdonalds with her baby, she has a home lives in this area but i think she is forced to do it, it makes me ill.

I don’t care how you feel misti and your virtue signalling does nothing to make me feel guilty or change my views

It’s very clear to me that some people really do need a break while others are fraudsters, liars, parasites and very broken people for whom no amount of your money can really help - at least not when it’s given directly to them. It often just perpetuates the problem.

The difficulty is in making a judgement call and how to tell the difference, but I just approach it on a case by case basis and use my gut instinct. Sometimes I’m sure I’m wrong, but what can you do?

Funnily enough, it was in Aldgate that I gave money to my ‘ex serviceman’ Cantwait

Ot on the underground though, and as far as I can tell he was alone. He was black but most definitely British.

Are these scamming gangs British or foreign do you know?

I've seen 2 different ones on the District Line.

The first one was a man who came and put notes on empty seats next to people explaining his plight and then came back to collect them and ask for money and the other was a woman asking for money. Both very polite.

Everyone did the eyes down too and I also did. Total inner conflict about whether to give anything in case they were organised gangs. I felt really cross with myself.

I live in Surrey and our town centre is full of them we was up early once and going somewhere I can't remember where, and a Mercedes pulled up and four of them was dropped off own the side of the bingo hall couldn't believe it. Days before we had given them money

Oliversmum there are plenty of stations with open barriers/that are unmanned which you can gain access to the tube from. So you shouldn't assume they have spent money on a ticket. As such you just need an Oyster card with £2.20 on it to get access to the whole network. You can spend the day riding the tube for free if you never leave the network or know what stations may be open. Even as close in as Leyton which is zone 3, if you go to the station mid morning the barriers are wide open - they learn the system to get on and off for free.

Don’t feel guilty! I don’t give to beggars . The professional ones will be part of an organised gang and if it pays then they’ll continue to do it.

I used to give money to street beggars, I'm afraid I don't now - but I do support homeless people in other ways.

There's a huge amount of exploitation of people who are either homeless, or appear to be homeless and I fear they don't get much of the money - it becomes a trap for them. I also worry about enabling people who use it for drugs and all.

But there's no need for eyes down ignoring people. It's ok to give them a sympathetic smile and say no, sorry and to return greetings. You don't need to try and be invisible or try and make them invisible. They are just people and acknowledging them as fellow humans is a good, kind thing to do.

I don’t give either. There are too many gangs and scammers.

I won’t give food or drink either. I saw the chaplain from my DS’s school give some sandwiches, fruit and drinks from Costa to two guys at the entrance to a car park in town as I was heading out of the car park. I forgot something from the car and had to go back a few minutes later. The guys were gone and they had just thrown the food and drinks he had given them under a bush.

I do however feel that more should be done to combat the gangs. They traffic people. They intimidate. They are known to the police.

A family member in Ireland has fostered two children from the same Romanian family. The first one ended up in hospital after the burns her ‘family’ had given her got infected and she ended up in the care of social services. The parents had scalded her hands as she would earn more from begging that way. So she was removed. They then went on to have another baby who was removed at birth.

I don’t buy the big issue either.

Well for a start she’s not paid to be on the tube, second begging is illegal and thirdly its very intimidating when these people get on the tube and force a paper cup in your face.

I’m happy to buy a cup of tea/food to someone sat on the sidewalk minding their business etc

All the people saying please just politely say no and treat these people as human beings, you do know that it’s because of people like you that these types of scammers are so successful and that begging has turned into a professional source of income.

Please explain how politely saying no makes anyone rich. I would genuinly like to know.

Romanian gangs are not street homeless , give to Shelter or The Simon Community.

I'd like to give a plug to
www.streetlink.org.uk

If you are worried about someone sleeping rough, please do get in contact with streetlink with the exact location of the person and relevant details. They can help connect the person with needed/wanted help.

Was asked for money by a bloke dressed in head-to-toe Ralph Lauren the other day.
Nah mate.

Imagine how much influence we would have if we all collectively came together and told our government ENOUGH of this bullshit. Enough of the austerity, enough of the stress and pressure put on people and their MH (causing most homelessness), enough of the cuts to homeless facilities and round up all the foreign begging scams and get rid.

Perhaps this is where our energies need to be directed if we want to make a difference.

I think that if you are going to buy someone food, it's important to ask first, as that's often not what they want. (And I hate waste!)

Personally, I don't give to individuals, but always smile and say sorry. I feel guilty, but I think better for me to feel guilty than to potentially fund crime.

I do still give very occasionally, but I know a lot are scams. There was one 'regular' locally for years - turned out he had a good stash in the bank and a flat (owned , not rented.). I've also been caught by one of the 'sob story' beggars - I almost knew it was a scam at the time but gave him something anyway.
Saw him just a few days later on a bus - not begging - he could tell I recognised him and the long, deliberate look he gave me - 'yes, it's me, and yes, you stupid cow, you fell for it' - was almost triumphal. Talk about a lesson - though I dare say I might still do the same again one day, on the off chance that it was genuine.

Mostly I give to the Sally Army and Crisis, though. I don't give to Shelter - IMO they don't do enough with the enormous amount of money they have and I gather their CEO is on a huge salary - not that that's unusual.

Also I'm sure that many of the beggars are run by gangmasters. There is evidence for that where I live - many looking to be of the same E. European origin, and there was a TV documentary a while ago - presented by a Romanian - about these gangs and pointing out the large, very flash villas in Romania the gang masters had built from their 'earnings'.

I don’t like to talk about professional begging gangs as ‘Romanian.’ They may or may not be Romanian (they usually are) but they could be Czech, Slovakian, Bulgarian. What they almost always are is Roma. If we are going to pin them down then let’s say Roma and lump all Romanians in with them?

The Romanians I know personally (who are not Roma) wouldn’t beg or steal or cheat any more than I would.

I meant let’s NOT lump all Romanians in with them

I never, well very rarely, give money to beggers. I don't think it's the best way to help and don't want to pay for the fix (if drug addicted) that kills them. I always make eye contact, say 'sorry' and never pretend I haven't seen them. I do sometimes buy them food or hot drinks.

@KirstyAllsoppsFatterTwin You get Brits and non-Brits begging. The guy that was walking along my carriage near Aldgate was definitely British (or looked and sounded very British anyway), and I think a lot of the Brits are individuals/chancers. The guy I saw last week got off at Aldgate East, crossed over and got a train in the opposite direction, so seemed to be spending the day begging.

The groups I've encountered - and this can be individuals working together or small clusters with/without children - have been from outside of the UK, typically Eastern Europeans from their language.