Lady begging on the tube

[UsedtobeFeckless]

Please all tell me in shouty capitals how it's a big wrong thing to give to beggers because l'm feeling bad about this.
Sitting on the tube and a lady comes along the carriage asking very quietly and politely for money. Everyone put their heads down and ignored her. I did too. If anyone else had put their hand in their pocket l would have done too but no-one did so l just sat there and l've been beating myself up for it ever since.
What would you have done?

I would never give. I doubt they’re what they’d have you believe and it just encourages them.

I don’t understand how someone with no money gets to be on a train? You can’t board without a ticket?

Please people, if someone begs for money, anything, if you don't have anything or want to give anything, please still acknowledge them. They are a human and being ignored as if invisible must be horrendous.

i think they buy the cheapest ticket they can and hop trains all day

thats what i was told-also dont give to the peopel walking up and down the trains theyre most probably scams

If my DH and I have the cash on hand, we always give to the homeless. Even if all they do is drink the money away, then that is their prerogative. My family and I have been homeless before, for about a year, and although we never asked for money from anyone, we did have to sleep in our car and at the Salvation Army. All I know is that DH and I are far more fortunate then they are. I count myself extremely lucky to have what I have now and I will always be eternally grateful. I still have a great fear of being homeless again, although it is highly unlikely at this time.

I do not judge people whether they give money to the homeless or not. I think it is a personal choice. The way I see it, it is a choice between you and your God (or the universe or however you view your reason for being here) No one outside of DH and I (and the homeless that we are giving money to) know that we do this. I'm only sharing my views because this is an anonymous forum and no one knows who I am.

But if I may, leave you with a few words that I have always remembered:

the measure of a society is how we treat our weakest members, not our strongest

It was hard OP but ultimately you did the right thing. Lots (not all) of the beggars on London transport are operating as part of a gang. As pp have pointed out, they have a pretty predictable script.

There’s a chap who hangs around Victoria station with a sign saying it’s his birthday (it’s always his birthday). One man works around Tottenham Court with what looks like a nasty injury claiming

Good grief, phone typing!

Anyway, the chap at Tottenham Court Road always has the same horrible looking injury and needs to get to the hospital. He’s clearly a very good makeup artist. Either that or he has awful luck coming off his bike every day.

I get on the overground a lot around Highbury and Islington and there used to be a woman begging on there most days, again always with the same story about being kicked out last night by her partner.

Now I don’t doubt that these people above have horribly hard lives. Why else would anyone be begging on a train? But it’s best to donate to charities where you know your money will go towards making a difference, and not into some gang leaders pockets.

Years ago my sister used to work for the then DSS.
Whenever we went out (usually with a group of other DSS staff) as we walked down the street 90% of the beggars would be people they saw regularly in their office, so our walk would be along the lines of …"That is not her baby, she doesn't have kids"
"He got a crisis loan today & has a flat just round the corner"
"He isn't homeless"
"Who was it who bought that dog in earlier? It wasn't them Are they sharing the dog now?"
"She isn't homeless, she's married with kids & a nice car"
"He actually is homeless but got his giro today" etc....

At that time, my sister was working full time for the DSS & paying childcare. She actually took home less than the people who were claiming after childcare was deducted (back when you didn't get help with it) so the people begging were better off than she was.

So no, I do not give to beggars on the street, or on a tube etc... because whilst there may be some genuine cases amongst them, the majority work at it like a job on top of having other sources of support.

I might buy a big issue though.

The thing is, I don't blame anyone for falling for the professional begging scam because they'll nearly always be people from 'out of town', who genuinely believe the scammers.

However, when you're a regular commuter and you see the same babies being passed around or the same man/woman walking freely up and down a train carriage, who you saw begging in a wheelchair outside the station yesterday, or you know for a fact (as I 100% do) that the 'street sleeper' outside the station has a 2 bed house 7 doors away from you, it does make you think differently.

Yet, as much as everyone in my local area despairs at this sort of thing and those who fall for it, someone put up an FB post the other week when it was snowing, asking if someone could hep a genuine rough sleeper in need and within half an hour, some people from an outreach charity were there and got him the help and shelter he desperately needed.

I should add, he wasn't even begging, he was just trying to sleep on a freezing cold pavement when it was snowing.

If I had the knowledge of someone being a professional beggar who actually has a flat to live in, obviously I would not give that person money. I am only talking about people that we see on the side of a road who are clearly unkept or clearly mentally ill (mumbling to themselves), vets, etc. My DH is an extremely good judge of character as he is a corrections officer at a maximum security prison. He has seen more than his share of scammers in his lifetime.

I think a good rule of thumb, is to take each person in need on a case by case basis, like everything else in life.

Just before Christmas I saw two teenage girls giving a homeless man a blanket. It was raining and getting dark, he sat on the pavement. I felt shamed so gave him money and stopped for a chat. He was very happy because he had a place at a Christmas shelter where he would have 4 days of meals and 4 nights of somewhere warm and safe to sleep. I wonder where he is tonight.

and drugging a baby they claimed to be theirs, although it turned out the poor little thing had been passed around many other beggars like a 'tool

Poor soul thats bloody sad that, the depths these people go to shamefull:(

I think, as a general rule, anyone begging on the tube is likely to be part of a professional gang. Genuine beggars avoid the tube because they know they'll be beaten up by the gangs who regard the underground as their pitch.

i used the walk the same route every day; a lady would always ask me for money for food for her kids. I thought it was a scam story; anyway one time she asked and I said “sorry I don’t have any change” she said would I get some money out of a cash point but I said I wouldn’t do that. She asked would I go in a shop with her and pay for some items, I said ok. Anyway we went in and she ran round frantically grabbing kids cereal , milk & a couple of other cheap food items obviously for kids. I felt so bad that I’d thought she was scamming every day and she actually did just want food for her kids

A lot of these beggars are in gangs and it's modern day slavery. No amount of money will help them because it all goes to the people they work for. There's been a huge increase in them here and when I work late and come home through the town centre (after to shops habe closed up) there's always the same guy coming to collect them- he'll pass them their rucksacks and off they go. And the more people give money, the more they are fuelling this form of slavery. It's much better to give direct to shelters, food banks, soup kitchens etc.

*I’ve encountered two beggars on the tube. One woman was playing an instrument, just walked up and down stopping in front of passengers. The other a youth asking for change.

I didn’t give to either but I did give a couple of pounds to a man near to Greg’s at Westminster. He definitely looked like he needed a break. Who knows though. It’s hard*

I would definitely donate to someone who felt they had to eat at Greggs.

Do it. Give money. Make eye contact. I don’t care what someone’s reasons are for begging. They’re a person who deserves dignity and respect and not to be ignored

You do know they probably earn more than you and have a nice house as well.

Article on one lot years ago in the Standard. Think they were all part of one family.
Reporters followed them adding up what people gave. Then followed them home to a very nice property in the burbs. Added up they reckoned that each member was earning around £40k per year.

Friend saw one guy outside a supermarket.

She bought him a hot drink and a sandwich.

He said he just wanted money. Did she have £20.

Last time she tried to help.

It’s 2019 and still people are giving to beggars ?
They earn more than you
If you want to help people donate to people’s go fund mes

I paid part of some girls rent on a forum I was on do stuff like that

Don’t encourage druggies who terrorise others because they are so use to hearing yes

All the people saying please just politely say no and treat these people as human beings, you do know that it’s because of people like you that these types of scammers are so successful and that begging has turned into a professional source of income.

Most of them earn more than any of you ever will and pay not a jot in tax or national insurance, and yet I bet the people saying to treat these scum artists (no that’s not a typo) as humans would be the same ones who suggested reporting a single parent for so-called benefit fraud if she was claiming but couldn’t actually afford to feed her children.

I had two experiences of these vile individuals over the weekend. One on southeastern into London who walked down the carriage with her little speech, I was actually shocked at the numbers of people who gave her money. But more relevant my sixteen year old was in London at the weekend and was approached by two men giving out leaflets saying “I’m homeless and don’t have any money could you spare some change and I don’t speak English.” He pointed out that he had no money and went to go into a shop at which point they became extremely aggressive and started shouting at him that he had cash and he needed to go with them at once. He has no doubt that if he had he would probably have been mugged for his phone etc. Fortunately the shop owner threw them out and said that they’d been hanging around earlier that day as well. I reported it to the police and they said these people are rife in London

So I am quite comfortable with my decision to ignore, ignore ignore ta very much.

Personally no, I don't. Used to get the train into and out of work- did night shift. Used to see the same people, all asking for $5 (Aus) for a ticket because they lost their wallet that day. When asked for the third night in a row, with the same story- was done. Either very disorganised with their wallet or had spent three days on the same train. Unfortunately the sheer volume of 'professional' beggars has jaded me. Was one in Edinburgh who used to sit with crutches and one leg tucked behind them- looked like they had a leg missing. U til it was time to go home and leg appeared, crutches carried back to a new car to drive home. Prefer to support charities. In Edinburgh- you used to be able to buy food vouchers which provided a meal to the recipient. Used o hand these out and the looks of disgust from recipients far outweighed any thank you's.

Organised gang. Probably raking it in.

I'd save my money for the ones sitting on the street that haven't made a strategic decision to use trains where it's much harder for people to get away.

We have 2 young women who regularly get on the train at stations with no barriers and get off at unmanned stations with no barriers - local stops but on main line to Dublin. They walk down the aisles leaving a packet of tissues on each table with a note about being poor, needing money to buy food for their sick mother and brothers and please buy the tissues.

They then collect up the printed notes and tissues/money etc.

Watched them get off one day, 'brothers' were bigger and looked older than them. One pulled out a packet of 20 fags, unwrapped them, dropped the litter, lit up and they walked off.