To be sacked due to sick children?

[Spamup]

Regular user but have NC for this!

My children, DS and DD both under 3 have several bouts of sickness before christmas and today my DS is not well which has resulted in a hospital admission - my employet has casually mentioned before about how i would probably be better off not working but nothing has been written down regarding this - ff to this evening, it has been sent to the HR department for formal disciplinary process to start and i am in bits - i am a lone parent and no family or friends to support me with emergancy childcare as they all work full time - can i really lose my job over this? I have bills etc to pay and worked a long time in this field to get to where i am now :(

She has tried to mitigate by taking unpaid leave and offering flexible time.

That won't be her choice. Shevwont have annual leave and it's not sickness so wouldnt by get paid ssp or company sick pay.

Not every job can be flexible. To assume that is ridiculous.

I'm not. The OP stated her specific job lacks flexibility due to antiquated paper based processes where most business work electronically. It isn't a role which needs to be inflexible.
This is not her fault any more than her child's illness is theirs. Both sides are demonstrating limitations on their options.

Maybe its time you considered a different job/ a year off? It sounds like you've been through a lot and being on your own with two under threes is very hard even without the stresses of work. Financially with one wage (for a job that doesn't suggest it will be earning you above the average), such high childcare costs and all this time you have had to take for the children without being paid it can't be earning you much
Do you have family that could babysit a few evenings a week to allow you to get evening work for the social side of things? Think of it as a short term solution. As the children get older they will hopefully get ill less often and you will have less childcare costs.

The OP stated her specific job lacks flexibility due to antiquated paper based processes where most business work electronically. It isn't a role which needs to be inflexible.

According to the op. That's doesn't mean it's true or that the op even has a view or understanding of why.

Just because you want works systems updating and made flexible, doesn't mean it can happen or will happen immediately.

I work in change for one of the biggest companies in the UK. Change doesn't happen over night or because one person has a lot of time off.

Besides which, if the OP had to take both her working days off, couldn't work them back because the kids were so I'll on her days off...what flexibility would fit for her?

Working from home is working from home. Not working whilst all so being in some charge of small sick children.

Well op if you’re still around use the pay out to go self employed it really is the only way whilst children are young. I’m a consultant doing the same job, earning double and if I don’t turn up nobody cares

According to the op.

Ok so lets assume the OP is lying which renders the whole thread pointless.

Oh and I am very familiar with how change works, including in global multinationals.

Ok so lets assume the OP is lying which renders the whole thread pointless.

I didn't say she was lying. But many people assume change is easy and will give them better working conditions. They just don't get how it works.

I don't think you do have an idea how change works if you presume the op saying they could change it means that's a fact.

Fabaunt. I'm disgusted that you blame the victimschool of domestic abuse for choosing their men badly. Perpetrators can appear normal and sometimes the abuse doesn't start until the kids come along. They don't wear a badge saying 'I hit women'.

Except dismiss her?

For what?

I mean, they have the option of going through a process of warnings etc, culminating in dismissal. That would probably take a min of six months

Or they can just dismiss her now, which would almost definitely from the info given be unfair dismissal.

So, they obviously don't want to do either of those, so they've chosen to have an off the record conversation, which is not unusual. She can still say no and either go through the process, or be sacked and bring a claim in the tribunal. Both would be very stressful.

It's pretty unlikely they would agree to her saying no without offering more money. Once these conversations start they pretty much have to be concluded. I've never had one fail.

I don't think you do have an idea how change works if you presume the op saying they could change it means that's a fact

I don't think you read my posts.

Feel free to point out the part where I said the business should change rather than where their own limitations were a factor in the lack of flexible working.

You said they could change and thats why op has had time off sick because they havent. You put some of the blame at their door. and then posted that you knew how change works. But your posts suggest you don't know how change works.

VanGoghsDog high levels of absence and not engaging with HR. They could mange her out quickly if she basically misses every other week.

Bluntness you drew attention to the fact that in five years she has taken maternity leave, sick leave and now has sick children. Why raise the maternity leave and sick leave if they are not relevant?

I'm not sure how you can misunderstand something so simple. But to explain, not one of these, even the last five months on returning to work is an Issue as such intself if contextualised in an otherwise good employee. The sheer volume of absence is the issue. Hence why we are looking at rhe bigger picture.

So The issue, which I and many other posters are making that is in 5 years she has worked approx 18 months, and due to thr age of her children and the year of with pnd, it means most of that work was in the first year, in the last fhree years she has worked a matter of weeks per year. It is now at a level that on any given day there is a fifty fifty chance she will be there. And that has been since her return in September.

This is not sustainable for any business. That is not wrong and yes of course looking at the bigger picture is relevant. That's why it's mentioned.

The employer is not unreasonable. The op is not unreasonable. There is no bad guy here. It's a shit set of circumstances that they all seem to be managing as best they can.

What's been said is when it's at this level, then it's reasonable for the employer to terminate. I don't think even the op disputes that. Due to her personal circumstance she is unable to meet the basic requirements of the job, namely acrually simply turning up two days a week and staying all day.

I am in a very similar home circumstance to you, two pre-school aged children, no father on the scene and my youngest is bloody horrendous health wise. I had to give up my job BUT found I was financially much better off not working anyway. Have used the time to do a degree etc to get myself in a better position for once the youngest's health stabilises.

It is so bloody tough :(

CH810N4O2
Even if her organisation did complete all work on the computer, I can’t imagine they’d allow her to work from home if she has no childcare. It’s clear in most organisations policies that working from home is not a substitute for childcare.

Huge sympathy OP. It is really difficult. I do have a dh but he works away, so once he's left on a Sunday night or Monday am, he can't easily help out (he can sometimes get back for the end of the week but it's mostly down to me). Illness when dc were little was a complete nightmare. I ended up going freelance and although I still have problems it's much better, especially now dc are older and I can wfh even if they are ill. Hope you find a solution

my employet has casually mentioned before about how i would probably be better off not working

This really jumped out at me. Surely that comes under discrimination or bullying or something? I don't think it's OK to say that.

It sounds like a terrible set of circumstances for you. It's nobody's fault.

If you keep taking off unpaid leave, it won't be worth it either financially or in how much it'll work you up having to ask for it.

I can see their point. It's opportunity cost. Who could be that head (and be grateful for part time hours) and reliably contributing?. It's horribly shit for you but they aren't really unreasonable. Working from home isn't looking after children who are poorly either.

Sorry, my love. Hope things look up for you soon.

Hello,

Yes you can but they also need to follow processes.
So there has been a verbal warning and now a written warning which mean that you can be dismissed if you miss any more days.

You can try to negotiate with them but if they are not willing to then you will have to find another way to work this around. This is complete nightmare I hear you though!!!

Your 5 years of employment don’t count when it comes to a lack of attendance. You should have a few days off possible for children sickness, you should have a parental leave accessible but if only your employer accept it.

I would surely try to find another job asap!!

So sorry :(

So out of 23 possible working weeks, you've had 7 or 8 weeks off, that's a third of your work time and you think your boss is unreasonable? I think they've been very good to you by not starting the process sooner

Have you thought about employing a nanny instead of nursery?
It would work out cheaper and a nanny will still care for your children when they're sick

I don't think anyone is being unreasonable here its just a really unfortunate situation.

They are unlikely to just dismiss you. Even if you have been there for under 2 years and they dismiss you you could claim unfair dismissal (discrimination due to your childcare committments and esp in light of that comment) so they would want to avoid this. Might not be a successful claim but it depends how risk averse they are.

It is more likely the beginning the formal procedures and series of warnings which, if there is no improvement, would lead to dismissal but they'd then be able to show they'd been reasonable in reaching that decision.

Increased flexibility doesn't seem like it would help here as wfh with sick kids isnt really working. From the employer's point of view, if you've exhausted dependant care leave etc and still not managed to put something in place for instances of sick children why should trust it will improve/put up with it?

It totally sucks though and is part of the bigger issues in this country of how working mothers manage home and work.

A childminder will be considerably cheaper and of course can be more flexible (within reason) but they still won’t look after sick children.

OP- although you're not asking for sympathy you have mine, seems like you've been through a hell of a lot and this situation isn't helping! If you don't mind me asking, what is it you actually do? Is there any possibility that you could be allowed to work from home? If one of your children has a long term condition then it might be considered a "reasonable adjustment", just a suggestion

Please don't ignore HR emails either. It really won't help. They are proved to be sent so it will be held as either agreement or as you being difficult if you choose to take it formally further.
I've managed someone with repeated absence for a number of reasons and it's really difficult because either someone else has to do the work, forecasts aren't achieved or you pay an expensive temp. It is very hard to work around. I had that person's results in our annual budget that went to the bank. We couldn't cover her lack of contribution nor replace her. I got stick for it. It's shit all round!!!!!