Aibu, childminders behaviour, do i move both children?

[Haypanky]

So Dd is 4, ds is not yet 2. Both go to a local childminder, who has Ds all day 3x a week, and takes Dd to and from preschool for me. We've had a few issues settling Dd in, and I'm the first to say she can be extremely stubborn and can have the emotional maturity of a fish. She's also quite anxious under it all. But after a rocky start, things were going OK.

Last week at drop off, Dd hesitated at the door. The childminder took her arm. Dd pulled back, the childminder pulled more, dragged her in screaming and shut the door. Dd says she wasn't allowed to get down from the table and had to face the wall. Preschool said Dd was very upset at drop off and felt sad.

Dh got home, and texted saying something like 'oh dear etc, we find Dd doesn't react well to manhandling, next time might be better to talk to her'. Childminder basically got the hump at us for implying she'd mishandled the situation. Dh ended up apologising.

Next day I did drop off, childminder was still in a hump and very off with Dd (Dd was really good, I was so proud/relieved!). I smoothed her down.

Then at pick up I received a pretty narky note, saying childminder was very raw still, we are implying she mishandled things, she's been a childcare professional for x yrs and a mother for x, she's had complaints and Dd still hasn't apologised! She doesn't propose to be put through the mill again and basically this is Dd's last warning. Having been nicey nicey, my blood did boil at this! Aibu?!

I could just about live with the childminder pulling Dd, if she'd then shown willing to discuss better tactics. But Aibu to think you don't hold a grudge against a 4yo for not apologising?!

Dd is not going back, easy to do breakfast and after school club instead. But what do I do about ds? He's settled there and it works for us logistically. But aibu to just not want him there anymore?

Advice please, do i leave Ds there or look elsewhere?

OP
Don’t give the notice period a further thought
You have safe guarding concerns. Serious ones. She has failed to adhere to her contractual obligations

In the end of the day a childminder that isn’t good enough for one of your children isn’t good enough for either of them.

Your DS will be a stroppy 4 yo one day too...

I’d move my D.C. too in these circumstances.

I remember being manhandled into nursery. Like I can still remember it to this day. I hated that place. I was eventually moved to another nursery, and was faaar happier.
Do it now!!

Also, I worked in nurseries, and Amy326 is right... the way some of the nursery teachers were when parents left freaked me out.

OP - I still think depending on your contract with childminder etc that no matter how highly she came recommended by preschool or whoever that on this occasion she breached the contract and manhandled your child, if a nursery or preschool member of staff manhandled your child in that way for me I'd have safe guarding issues and would report without hesitation.

I'm staggered you're thinking of letting childminder call the shots re her behaviour and your contract with her in this instance.

There is not a chance my children would go back there. I'd pay the notice but sort out emergency leave or temporary nanny. I wouldn't trust her not to make the most of four weeks with a child she doesn't like or understand.

I removed my dd from two different settings for less tbh and we were all instantly happier.

I cannot believe you would consider leaving your Ds there for another day. Talk to both your employers and between yourself and Dh take a few days off to sort the situation. I was in a position before where we had to take kids out asap - no way would I leave Ds there. Tell her you will forego reporting her to ofsted as long as she doesn't expect a penny more from you. I'm sorry to be blunt, but this is not a situation where you get to be a wuss to save this bitches feelings!

justonemoreminutepls - how do you check up on nursery staff? Offsted?

Certainly remove both and her behaviour with your dd sounds awful.

But also, a lesson for the future for you and your DH, is that this is a good example of why face to face conversations are the right approach for any sensitive topic, or area of contention. Text was the wrong medium to use. Even phoning and talking would have been better. Of course she reacted to 'manhandling' as an accusation she had to defend herself against.

If that had been face to face, you / he would have been able to diffuse her reaction immediately, while keeping the discussion going. You would also have learnt, by listening to her talk about how she does things, exactly why she was not the right minder for your dd.

I'm a nanny and a mother.

This is totally unacceptable to do this to someone else's child. In a million years I would not behave like this under any circumstances when being paid to look after someone's child!

If a CM did this to my Dd I would remove both of the children - with no notice and not pay the notice period.
This is a safeguarding issue.
I was also report her to OFSTED and the local council.
If she has done this to your DD what could she be doing to babies / younger children?

To clarify, I mean my children wouldn't do the notice but I'd pay for money if I had too.

I'm not planning on reporting (and who to, anyway?)

Why not? Your dh witnessed her grabbing your dd by the arm as well as being told she uses humiliation punishments on pre school children. These practices are not allowed in childcare settings and need addressing by her regulatory body. If you're in England/Wales it's Ofsted you need to contact, Scotland it's Care Inspectorate. You can submit a complaint online.

Additionally, all CM are required to display their complaints procedure to parents which includes contact details for Ofsted/Care Inspectorate.

She may be well regarded but she's certainly not up to speed on modern child protection and safeguarding issues.

Be wary of telling anything to the nursery, if you do keep it factual and brief.

If you want out of the 4 week paid notice period you have to prove she breached the contract. A complaint to Ofsted would certainly help back this up, though they won't get involved in financial disputes it would certainly add weight to your side if she goes after you in small claims court.

I wouldn't be surprised to hear this was a childminder in East Renfrewshire.

Dreadful behaviour, I would absolutely be taking my child out of there.

I am moving from 'aibu' to 'aibu enough'! Liked the nursery so will make that change as soon as can be managed, and will talk to grandparents re childcare in the interim. Thank you everyone.

Fucking hell, you need to pull them both out immediately AND report to Ofsted. I’m sorry to be blunt and/or offensive but why the bollocks wouldn’t you report this?

I thought it was a case of her doing the wrong thing and escalating a situation unnecessarily. But seems I'm wrong and it's a more serious no no... It started off as taking Dd by the arm and turned to pulling then picking up under the arm pits while she kicked and yelled, apparently.

You've asked the cm not to manhandle your dd, quite rightly, and instead of accepting it and moving on, she's decided to hold a grudge and still have the hump with both the parents and a little 4 year old child?!?!

She sounds very unprofessional and, quite frankly, just horrible!! Definitely doing the right thing by removing them.

Hope you pulled them out now OP.
First she manhandled Dd, then it was reported to you that she punished her by making her sit at a table facing a wall not allowed to move, then she has the hump with you all, then she holds a grudge against a 4 year old who has moved on from this minor infraction. She's a pretty rubbish childminder and quite immature.

My 7 year old still has anxiety about going to school. Drop off can be traumatic, but they are very good and very patient as they understand that this is something she struggles with. Not giving her time to adjust, and man handling her is one thing, but then to be angry with her about it - and to actually bear a grudge, is appalling.

OP you didn't know who to report her too - ofsted.

Does this mean you haven't seen her ofsted reports/she hasn't been inspected recently? Our childminder is always so upfront and transparent with this stuff, just seems a bit odd/worrying that yours isn't?

She sounds awful, I would not have left her again, especially her response after your DH had a talk. Your dd is only 4 she is not going to be emotionally mature for a while!

Just want to point out something I noticed in your post. You said dd had been made to stand facing the wall, and you were unsure if it was true.

Unless you use this as punishment at home or the preschool does- how would she know this is a punishment until it’s been done to her or she’s been threatened with it?

Definitely move both of them. What kind of professional is she to behave this way, holding grudges and manhandling a child. What does being a mother have to do with anything.
Maybe your Dd anxiety has something to do with her.

@slothcuddles good point. No I'd never do that. I do think it's true, I just don't know the context, how long etc. But yeah I wouldn't do it like that.

Wales is ESTYN and CSSIW callmerachel, Ofsted is England. Just in case anyone in Wales ever comes across this thread and doesn’t know who to report to.