I don’t want DD to be moved out of her class.

[AvaHavanna]

Hello all.
Please bear with me as this is causing a lot of anxiety and arguments in my house. I have name changed as I will have to speak about somebody else’s child in this post.
When DD started school she became friends with a child with SN, I’ll call him X. We got on well with his parents and would go on play dates with them and DD seemed happy in their friendship.
They have remained in the same class and are now in KS2. However A is completely obsessed with DD. This seemed to flare up At the end of last year. He freaks out if he cannot sit with her in class however hurts her continually in class. The whole class is evacuated often because of his behaviour, such as throwing scissors. Often DD and a friend have to do their lessons in the next classroom as A is becoming aggressive towards her.
This all came to a head last week when he pinned DD against the wall in the playground. The headmistress had to pull him off. She is now terrified to go to school.
Her teacher has suggested she moves into another class permanently, however DD has a lovely group of friends in her class and I would ideally like her to stay with them. She also adores her teacher who has helped her with her confidence massively.
This is causing so much stress and rows with her DF as he thinks we should just move her. AIBU?
Sorry for the massive post didn’t want to drip feed!

Your daughter shouldnt move . The school arent managing A and their needs. I hope you get this sorted what a difficult position to be in.

I understand that ASD children need extra help and stability and disruption sets them back but I feel that the line is drawn when they are affecting another childs stability and happiness.

Apologies.
I will leave the thread.
Safeguard your daughter OP and fight for her - no-one else will.

Harebellmeadow

Molesting? What a bloody awful thing to say about a child with SN. You should be ashamed of yourself.

You have no idea what his parents are like.

Having a child with additional needs can happen to anyone. You’re one small accident away from being in their position. Ask yourself how you’d like you and your child to be spoken.

Sloping away from the thread doesn’t change your attitude. Perhaps spend some time READING (not commenting) the threads about the struggles of the children, and families who have a child, with SN.

I'm really sorry to read this. My daughter has a friend with behavioural issues but the parents refuse to engage with agencies and get him diagnosed and access appropriate support. He is obsessed with my daughter to the point where he would knock the door constantly for her and steal her belongings. He is no longer allowed into our house but will walk regularly past our house staring. When he was younger he asked my daughter to bring a weapon to school to kill his parent, he has done other very worrying things and has hit my daughter at school. I reported this to the school immediately and my daughter was removed from the class and ended up with older children as the boy would be unable to cope with a move. I wish I had put my foot down more and insisted he be moved, however I was relieved that she would be away from him. Ultimately I blame his parents as the desire not to label him has meant he is not getting any support and he is suffering in the long term. Stop all the play dates with this boy and let your daughter develop other friendships. Good luck.

I had issues with an adult with the same problem - he's become totally obsessed with me, threatening and following me, telling people he's married to me etc. I'm physically disabled with mh issues and was told to just put up with it as he cannot learn differently and is ill (I don't know if he has SN and mental health issues we met on a mental health ward), first time I was in hospital and I was locked in my room for safety until discharged whilst he could freely come and go and continue to threaten me through the door or even come in if staff forgot to lock it.

This has gone on for years and, to be honest, had someone helped and supported him perhaps he could have at least found some way of modifying his behaviour. My last run in with him he said if I told anyone he'd just say he was ill, go into hospital and find someone else worthless to hurt instead of me.

When I and advocate complained we were told that he couldn't possibly control himself and the advocate asked what they did when it happened with staff (like me he's been under services decades but been hospital much much more) and they said he has never done it to staff only female patients. The advocate said that indicated he could learn and a huge argument broke out. Women's aid said the same.

He's very well known to the police for his behaviour as well, though they've never been anything but professional with me I know from an ex copper he's considered to be able to control himself by them as he targets vulnerable women with no one to support them.

It's hard for me to feel sorry for a man making my life a misery but I can't help but think if he was the child in the OP and had some appropriate support perhaps he could have turned out differently.

The school are failing your daughter.

I've an ASD kid; it should never be an excuse for violence and bullying. In my experience most ASD kids are too scared of our freaky NT world to draw attention to themselves by acting out.

To be clear I don't think everyone with SN or mental health issues behave in the same way, I'm just relating my experience.

Her teacher has suggested she moves into another class permanently, however DD has a lovely group of friends in her class and I would ideally like her to stay with them. She also adores her teacher who has helped her with her confidence massively.

She absolutely should not have to move, to alleviate a problem caused by another child.

It doesn't sound as if this child is not being best served in a mainstream school and it doesn't sound as if other children are getting a very good deal out of it either.

sorry for garbled last sentence

I feel sorry for both the children.

You dd should be allowed to stay in her own class, this is a case of the victim being ‘punished’ as such, she could be thinking she’s done something wrong being removed from her friends.

I also feel sorry for her friend, as he obviously needs 1:1 support to help him manage his behaviour. So he’s getting a raw deal too.

If you get no joy with the head, escalate it to the governors as pp have said.

Sorry your dd is going through this, and congratulations on your new addition! Not the headache you need right now.

@Becca19962014 I don’t think anyone ready your post will think that’s what you meant.

Sorry you are going through this. I can’t believe it hasn’t been dealt with over the years.

I had similar issues with a child in my middle child's year.
It got so bad I went in and suggested that they needed to assess their safeguarding rules and that if it had been an adult relationship there would be serious concerns. Made worse by the fact that when he was behaving she would play with him so 'he wasn't left out'
In the playground she was told to move away but he followed her and repeatedly hurt her.
After some pushing they wrote a diary in class for anyone who taught them to read (different teachers each day and same on the playground) he wasn't to be on the same table as her, sat near her or allowed to play near her. If he did HE had to be moved away not her. Eventually he learnt to leave her alone but I did have to call once when a teacher didn't read the diary and put him next to her in maths. I went mad. It was quickly remedied and many apologies passed on.
He's now moved onto another child and spends most of his time outside the classroom now, the most recent for punching a child in the face.
He's 8. It's frightening.

OP, you poor love and your poor DD!
I'm so sorry she's been subjected to this, and that it comes at such a important time for your family. You must be exhausted.

I agree with everyone above - get loud, get annoying, be THAT parent and don't let school see moving your daughter as the nice quiet resolution to the problem. The school has a duty of care to all pupils, not just those with SEN. Your daughter has a right to safety and a secure, nurturing learning environment. Being moved from her friends and a good teacher because of another child's behaviour is not acceptable. It's sacrificing her interests for the ease of the school in handling the challenging behaviours of a child with additional needs.

I hope they are able to get the correct support for X (A?) but your daughter is not one of the tools they can use to arrange that.

You say you are no longer on speaking terms with the parent. Did something happen? If not, maybe she is aware of the issues and is afraid to approach you with them? Would it be worth approaching her with a “the school is failing both our kids, fancy joining forces to get them to do the best for A which will help DD?” Raising a child with SN can be really isolating, she may well need a shoulder.

Whether it’s possible or not you absolutely need to tell the school it’s a firm NO for moving your daughter. Make a complete nuisance of yourself, point out that moving DD will do nothing to help A and will only mean the other children are at risk instead. Make it clear you think they should be doing more to support A rather than just moving children out of the class. What happens when so many children are affected they need to move them? Forget “ideally”. No pussyfooting around. It’s a no, end of. Let them know you will take it as far as you need to.

I'm not sure the child with SEN should be moved, as he may find the change disruptive This would only be relevant if the child was settled and coping well. He is not well catered for and seems disrupted anyway. If change is an issue, moving his friend will be equally disruptive.

Ultimately I blame his parents as the desire not to label him...
Have you any idea how hard it is to get the right support in schools for SEN children, to access CAMHS, to get a diagnosis and statement? You have absolutely no idea what the parents are or are not doing.

blame the victim
Both children are victims. Both are being failed by the school system.

sloth thanks for the understanding. It's been going on seven years now, no sign of it ever being sorted, or anyone seeing it from my point of view.

@Becca19962014 I'm speechless.

There could be another child with SEND in the other class hence why they can't move the boy rather than your daughter. ie one child with SEND in each class.

I would merely ask whether he can be moved instead and say why you would want your daughter to stay put.

Agree with everyone else that in the situation you describe the boy should be moved and not your dd or he should have an adult 1 to 1 (the way they seem to do it in my ds's school and the school of which I am a governor which seems to cause considerable harm to the SEN child is to isolate child from class until behaviour has improved but that is another thread)..

The only question I wanted to ask you (and I'm not trying to be inflammatory just want to put another perspective) is there any chance your dd is winding the child up/pushing his buttons? A couple of the SEN children I know have been in trouble for violent behaviour to other children in school but when you look at the trigger for that behaviour there is often provocation from the "victim". That still does not excuse violence but it might explain why the child's parent refuse to speak to you and why school think moving your daughter away might resolve the problem. If there is any chance your dd is not completely innocent in all this then this would be a good opportunity to discuss difference with her.

There is a boy in my son's class who does exactly this. He also throws chairs, and according to his mother has also punched a teacher. He regularly attacks the other children. They (the school) remove him from class. He has to sit in the head teachers office most days. They certainly would never make another child move.

That solution doesn't help either child, it's just the simplest short term fix for the school. Your daughter needs to stay where she is best placed and A needs appropriate provision and support to manage his needs, be it still in that school or somewhere better geared up to work constructively with him and his family.

There could be another child with SEND in the other class

This isn’t a thing. Having both children in the same class makes it far easier to provide appropriate support. 1 assistant rather than 2.

OP, you also need to tackle your OH about this. Tell him you are sticking up for your daughter when nobody else will. Ask him how he would feel if he was removed from a group of colleagues or friends he got on well with, where friendship bonds were already formed, and put into a group where he didn’t know anybody. Ask him how disruptive that would feel.

I don’t often say that one parent is right and the other wrong, I’m usually more likely to suggest a compromise, but friendship bonds are hugely important at that age. His key thought will be to protect his daughter, point out that stripping her of her friends when she has done nothing wrong is not protecting her at all.

Wow, shocked at the behaviour of the school OP. Nice bit of victim blaming on a young girl there?! Why should she have to move?!

It looks like they are tiptoeing around the issue of sen. Yes, this child's needs are important but so are all the needs of all the other children too and it sounds like everyone is being failed here.

Time for the big guns. Head of Senco, OFSTED and the school governors. This cannot go on any longer. Your dd has a right to feel safe and settled at school and this is clearly not happening. Don't let it go.